UK UK - Bristol, WhtMale 571UMUK, 25-35, fell from Clifton bridge, May'96

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by webnut, Aug 19, 2016.

  1. sonz82

    sonz82 Well-Known Member

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  2. Triss

    Triss Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps he wasn't local so he kept the photo because he knew nobody would recognise him anyway.
     
  3. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting, went to Bradford University, wonder if the ID card matches?
    [​IMG]

     
  4. sonz82

    sonz82 Well-Known Member

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    If there was someway to get a look at DD' s Id card. He seems like a very close match to me
     
  5. LucyOso

    LucyOso Verified Registered Nurse

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  6. sunnynz

    sunnynz Well-Known Member

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    They have a certain likeness but I personally think their ears look very different, with Nathan's sticking out much more than John Doe's.

    My husband lived in Bristol at this time, I'll ask him if he recognises him (long shot I know but they would have been a similar age).

    For what it's worth, I feel like not too much stock should be put into what possessions he had on him - if he was sleeping rough he may have just collected random possessions along his travels. The Utopia book may have been something discarded/lost by someone else and he picked it up, someone may have seen his cardboard sign and given him a bible as a gesture of kindness - and so on. All just assumptions on my part.

    I would guess that the can opener and corkscrew were items of practicality and he could have been a drinker of wine. Doesn't help figure out who he is of course.

    I feel like the clothing found on him is not a lot to be wearing to sleep rough in Bristol, even leading into Spring time. A sweatshirt and a leather jacket (plus sleeping bag of course) don't feel like enough layers to me. Could he have come from somewhere warmer and only just arrived in Bristol in time for expected warmer weather from May onwards? If that theory stands then it would only have been somewhere a little warmer as if he'd come from somewhere hot he'd surely have a tshirt or similar.

    Sorry for the ramblings! Agree, he has a bit of a public school look to him in the pic - but that hair style was very common across males of that age in 1996 across all walks of life.
     
  7. LucyOso

    LucyOso Verified Registered Nurse

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    I agree about the ears. But he also has an interesting facial expression in the one photo and people ears can move a bit when changing expressions. Also the two hairstyles are a bit different and one is far shorter and can make ears stick out a bit. Just a thought...I also agree with his possessions...they could be free or random items he discovered on the way.
     
  8. sonz82

    sonz82 Well-Known Member

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    I've just been reading about Lee Boxall on Wikipedia and the photo they used of him (which I've never seen before) makes me wonder if this could be him. The shape of his ears and chin look very similar to this John Doe.
     
  9. PhoebeG

    PhoebeG Member

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    The old administrative county of West Glamorgan used to cover the Swanesa/Port Talbot area, rather than Cardiff.

    Coincidentally that administrative area was abolished on 1st April 1996, a month and a half before this doe was found. I wonder if he had acquired the Utopia book not long before his death somewhere in the Swansea area as a result of something to do with the change of local authorities and boundaries, for example a library being closed or disposing of some of its stock under the new authority (maybe even Swansea Central Library in the Civic Centre, which was the West Glamorgan Council headquarters but was transferred to the new Swansea local authority in April 1996). Then he made his way to Cardiff and ended up crossing over the Severn Bridge to Bristol.
     
  10. PhoebeG

    PhoebeG Member

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    I've been giving this one more thought today and have come to the conclusion that it is unlikely this man is from the British Isles, unless he has had no family looking for him over the last two decades. If he had family in the UK who have been missing him they would surely have found his photo and info very quickly just by googling.

    However, if he isn't from the British Isles then how did he get to the UK, bearing in mind he had no passport? If he came from another English speaking country such as Australia/New Zealand/US he would have needed a passport and there would have very possibly been flight records & evidence of his passport being used.

    Equally, if he's European, where's his passport/ID documentation that got him into the UK? I wonder how they knew the scratched out card he had on him was a student ID but they could never identify the university/college it came from? Maybe the ID card wasn't a student ID but another kind of ID. In 1996 Germany, France, Belgium, Greece, Luxembourg, Portugal and Spain were all operating identifcation card systems. It must have have been pretty scratched out to not be able to match it to a university in the UK at the time, even if just by the colours & design.

    In 1996 it would have been easy to move around the mainland of western Europe - by May 1996 France, Germany, Belgium, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain and Austria had all abolished border checks as part of the implementation of the Schengen Area. He could have travelled through Europe (with his guidebook) and not needed to produce any ID or a passport except to enter the UK. Therefore if he originally came from somwhere in Europe there's no way of tracking his journey or where he originated from and his family may not have thought to check the UK.

    Basically a lot of speculation, but just food for thought!
     
  11. MelmothTheLost

    MelmothTheLost Well-Known Member

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    There's no mention of DNA for this guy so it's about time they exhumed him (assuming he wasn't cremated) and did DNA and isotope tests.

    His passport could have been lost or stolen and he planned to report this when he was ready to leave the UK. It might have expired so he chucked it - not sensible, I know, but not everyone is.

    As above.

    I've been wondering about this, and what style or design of card it was. When I was at uni (graduated 1981) student union cards were in the form of a very small booklet, about 2.5" tall and 2" wide, with a hard cloth-covered card cover in a particular colour and bearing the university's coat of arms on the front, and with one piece of paper stapled into the middle with various details on. At some subsequent date these were replaced by credit card type affairs, but I wonder which style of card they're talking about. If he was 35 in 1996, it was probably the old style like mine, but if he was 25 it may well have been the new style.

    Yes, very possible, though unless all the details had been scratched out there should be some indication of the language used on the card. And why would he have his student card but not his passport?

    Yes, the principle of free movement came in with Maastricht in 1992 though some member states (including the UK and Ireland) remained outside the Schengen area. However if he was Irish he probably wouldn't have needed a passport to enter the UK because the UK and Ireland have maintained their own Schengen-type free travel zone since Ireland became independent. [What will happen following Brexit is another matter.]
     
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  12. MelmothTheLost

    MelmothTheLost Well-Known Member

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    Just a thought - we shouldn't rule him out being South African or Rhodesian/Zimbabweam.

    Apartheid ended in SA in 1992/1993 and many whites abandoned the country at that time. Many came to the UK and others went on to Australia or NZ.

    Zimbabwe went over to black majority rule in 1980 and for some years all seemed well, but civil unrest grew again from about 1990 and forcible land redistribution began in 1997. It's possible that this guy was from the farming class in Zimbabwe, saw the writing on the wall and decided not to return after studying at a British university. Many white farmers simply left when their land was confiscated.
     
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  13. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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  14. PhoebeG

    PhoebeG Member

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    Yes, I was thinking isotope tests would be great in this case given that he could really be from anywhere. It would help narrow things down.

    Yes, very possible he got rid of the passport, perhaps even shortly before he died. If it was a suicide perhaps he intentionally destroyed it (as the scratched out card suggets).

    I wondered about him being Irish and having perhaps travelled via ferry to Wales (Dublin to Anglesey?), made his way down through Wales (he was likely in South Wales at some point to have acquired the Utopia book), and over the Severn Bridge to Bristol, maybe even on his way to Europe that way.

    Something that suggests he'd been in the UK a while is that he only had British pounds on him, no other currency. If he had been travelling around Europe or Ireland recently I feel like he might have had some leftover change. You never spend all your currency and sometimes it's not worth changing small amounts back.
     
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  15. MelmothTheLost

    MelmothTheLost Well-Known Member

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    Or Rosslare to Fishguard in SW Wales, from which it would be straight along the A40 and M4 via Swansea and Cardiff to Bristol.
     
  16. Ozoner

    Ozoner Well-Known Member

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    Social media could probably solve this case. Some old school mates would likely recognize this fellow. Considering that he was "sleeping rough," he may have been estranged from his family or may not have had any family.
     
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  17. LucyOso

    LucyOso Verified Registered Nurse

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    BBM...I agree, it was easier to move about pre 9/11. And if he scratched out his name...He could have gotten rid of a passport as well. Who knows where he flew into. They didn't keep the rigorous checks as they do now. He could have travelled through Calais or something. He could have come on a gap year or work stay. It was a different time then. I agree, we might not be from the UK.
     
  18. sonz82

    sonz82 Well-Known Member

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    Could this be Mark Bartley? As far as I know he is still missing. He was located once and then vanished again.
     
  19. jessie

    jessie Well-Known Member

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    I can't find him on Missing People. Can anyone help with details please?
     
  20. sonz82

    sonz82 Well-Known Member

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    I found this on Wikipedia:
    "Also featured in the UK version was Mark Bartley, a runaway who went missing in 1992. He was recognised in the video by a man who knew Bartley was staying in the tenant's house below them, but was unaware of his missing status. By the time the police arrived, Bartley and the man he was living with were gone. It is unknown what happened to him after this."

    There are also blogs about his disappearance, and photos, but nothing to suggest they ever located him.
     

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