UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #15

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Moving swiftly onward... While chugging slowly through thread #9 earlier today I came across one of the earliest interviews with MWT and John Stapleton on GMTV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmWjgJbTlpI

This piece includes a cctv still of CL leaving work on the 18th, but also two stills (including one “enhanced” image - see below) of her (presumably) arriving at work that day.

My two questions are:
Is that a bag she is holding in front of her?
If so, what colour would you say it is?

View attachment 291905
Yes, I would say she is holding a bag in front of her. Her right hand holding the top open whilst reaching in or putting an item in. Bottled water perhaps?
Looking at the Suggested image of the Karrimor bag it doesn’t appear to have a flap top that opens. More a conventional curved rucksack zip where the front unzips....

Difficult to guess the colour on a black and white image
 
Moving swiftly onward... While chugging slowly through thread #9 earlier today I came across one of the earliest interviews with MWT and John Stapleton on GMTV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmWjgJbTlpI

This piece includes a cctv still of CL leaving work on the 18th, but also two stills (including one “enhanced” image - see below) of her (presumably) arriving at work that day.

My two questions are:
Is that a bag she is holding in front of her?
If so, what colour would you say it is?

View attachment 291905
You can clearly see this is her Karimor Rucksack
 
Yes, I would say she is holding a bag in front of her. Her right hand holding the top open whilst reaching in or putting an item in. Bottled water perhaps?
Looking at the Suggested image of the Karrimor bag it doesn’t appear to have a flap top that opens. More a conventional curved rucksack zip where the front unzips....

Difficult to guess the colour on a black and white image
Good chance she would have been putting her phone away before starting work. I agree, it's her rucksack, you can tell by the straps.
 
Hi everyone, I followed this case for a while but I’m a new member here.

I don’t like the fact that there is so many different theories that just get too convoluted to follow. I’ve seen theories about whether it was drugs related, it was the dad, it was random, it was an accident.. none of them make any sense in the timeline we know. It couldn’t have been a morning operation.. if you try to think like a murderer would doing it in the morning when a lot of activity is happening make sense? Nope

That leads us to a night time operation but it wasn’t really an operation was it? What happened afterwards was the operation IMO. She met with someone a few hours after returning from work. She was at what she thought was a safe enough haven to ring her parents and then the trigger point which caused a chain of events to occur leading to a swift operation to clean up the trail.

Could one person do that on there own without any help? Not likely. Was it a pure accident followed by a cover up? Not likely either. Was the person(s) who did it and involved with the cover up known to some of Claudia’s friends? I’d say yes, they may even know or have some idea who it could be but either don’t feel they have enough like the police to say or have actively chosen not to say anything at least publicly.

So where do we go from here? Well until one of them has the guts to stand up and speak (because it’s believed there is multiple people involved and even more in the know) we won’t ever get a definitive answer.

Where did they hide the body? That’s also related to multiple people being involved because it would be much harder to hide a body without having outside help. So whoever was involved had to have had knowledge or had access to knowledge and equipment to quickly dispose of a body.

This leads us to the the 4 POI’s, two of whom were brothers who have a building firm(?) and then that’s when things become a bit murky.. the police have enough that they felt confident to escalate it. The perpetrators must know the police are on to them so it’s now a case of waiting for one of them to slip up.

So how can it possibly be solved without people in the know coming forward? Like most cases it’s mainly by pure luck or by someone growing a backbone. In a case like this with the type people involved there’s not a lot of hope for it being the latter.

My biggest question is why so much loyalty to the perpetrators from the people who know? The only two answers I can come up with is blood relation or drugs.. But just to be clear I don’t think she was killed because of drugs.. but it might have had something to do with why nobody who could help is coming forward with useful information.
 
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Couldn't agreed more Ragnorok.
Just to add, I don't think her remains will ever be stumbled across either.
After 12 years it can only be by pure luck she is found at this point, makes me even more convinced it’s multiple people involved in the cover up and some knowledge/equipment of disposing.

If we compare it to the recent case where Libby squire was found in the water it makes sense why Claudia wasn’t found because this wasn’t a one person clean up.

But saying that with multiple people involved it creates opportunity for more mistakes and slip ups so there is still a possible silver lining.
 
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Hi everyone, I followed this case for a while but I’m a new member here.

I don’t like the fact that there is so many different theories that just get too convoluted to follow. I’ve seen theories about whether it was drugs related, it was the dad, it was random, it was an accident.. none of them make any sense in the timeline we know. It couldn’t have been a morning operation.. if you try to think like a murderer would doing it in the morning when a lot of activity is happening make sense? Nope

That leads us to a night time operation but it wasn’t really an operation was it? What happened afterwards was the operation IMO. She met with someone a few hours after returning from work. She was at what she thought was a safe enough haven to ring her parents and then the trigger point which caused a chain of events to occur leading to a swift operation to clean up the trail.

Could one person do that on there own without any help? Not likely. Was it a pure accident followed by a cover up? Not likely either. Was the person(s) who did it and involved with the cover up known to some of Claudia’s friends? I’d say yes, they may even know or have some idea who it could be but either don’t feel they have enough like the police to say or have actively chosen not to say anything at least publicly.

So where do we go from here? Well until one of them has the guts to stand up and speak (because it’s believed there is multiple people involved and even more in the know) we won’t ever get a definitive answer.

Where did they hide the body? That’s also related to multiple people being involved because it would be much harder to hide a body without having outside help. So whoever was involved had to have had knowledge or had access to knowledge and equipment to quickly dispose of a body.

This leads us to the the 4 POI’s, two of whom were brothers who have a building firm(?) and then that’s when things become a bit murky.. the police have enough that they felt confident to escalate it. The perpetrators must know the police are on to them so it’s now a case of waiting for one of them to slip up.

So how can it possibly be solved without people in the know coming forward? Like most cases it’s mainly by pure luck or by someone growing a backbone. In a case like this with the type people involved there’s not a lot of hope for it being the latter.

My biggest question is why so much loyalty to the perpetrators from the people who know? The only two answers I can come up with is blood relation or drugs.. But just to be clear I don’t think she was killed because of drugs.. but it might have had something to do with why nobody who could help is coming forward with useful information.
Still does not answer the question : why was she harmed ? Motive ?
 
Still does not answer the question : why was she harmed ? Motif ?
The who is more important than the why if we want to catch them.. once we know that then we can get into the why. Whoever it was obviously thinks they are invincible and can do whatever they want and have protection but let’s focus on who they are rather than the why they did it because without a who the why doesn’t matter.
 
After 12 years it can only be by pure luck she is found at this point, makes me even more convinced it’s multiple people involved in the cover up and some knowledge/equipment of disposing.

If we compare it to the recent case where Libby squire was found in the water it makes sense why Claudia wasn’t found because this wasn’t a one person clean up.

But saying that with multiple people involved it creates opportunity for more mistakes and slip ups so there is still a possible silver lining.

Blood is thicker than water, as the saying goes. I don't see anybody cracking any time soon. No divorces in that family, you can be sure of that lol.
 
Hi everyone, I followed this case for a while but I’m a new member here.

I don’t like the fact that there is so many different theories that just get too convoluted to follow. I’ve seen theories about whether it was drugs related, it was the dad, it was random, it was an accident.. none of them make any sense in the timeline we know. It couldn’t have been a morning operation.. if you try to think like a murderer would doing it in the morning when a lot of activity is happening make sense? Nope

That leads us to a night time operation but it wasn’t really an operation was it? What happened afterwards was the operation IMO. She met with someone a few hours after returning from work. She was at what she thought was a safe enough haven to ring her parents and then the trigger point which caused a chain of events to occur leading to a swift operation to clean up the trail.

Could one person do that on there own without any help? Not likely. Was it a pure accident followed by a cover up? Not likely either. Was the person(s) who did it and involved with the cover up known to some of Claudia’s friends? I’d say yes, they may even know or have some idea who it could be but either don’t feel they have enough like the police to say or have actively chosen not to say anything at least publicly.

So where do we go from here? Well until one of them has the guts to stand up and speak (because it’s believed there is multiple people involved and even more in the know) we won’t ever get a definitive answer.

Where did they hide the body? That’s also related to multiple people being involved because it would be much harder to hide a body without having outside help. So whoever was involved had to have had knowledge or had access to knowledge and equipment to quickly dispose of a body.

This leads us to the the 4 POI’s, two of whom were brothers who have a building firm(?) and then that’s when things become a bit murky.. the police have enough that they felt confident to escalate it. The perpetrators must know the police are on to them so it’s now a case of waiting for one of them to slip up.

So how can it possibly be solved without people in the know coming forward? Like most cases it’s mainly by pure luck or by someone growing a backbone. In a case like this with the type people involved there’s not a lot of hope for it being the latter.

My biggest question is why so much loyalty to the perpetrators from the people who know? The only two answers I can come up with is blood relation or drugs.. But just to be clear I don’t think she was killed because of drugs.. but it might have had something to do with why nobody who could help is coming forward with useful information.

I agree it always comes back it always comes back to loyality to perpertrators from the people who know. The NYP have said this on numerous occassions so we need to be guided by them when they appeal for particular information from the public. The identification of alleyman/men in my opinion is key. Identify those people and the ones that appear on that cctv and the footage of Melrosegate on thurs morning and the answer to why such loyality exists will become clear.

IMO
 
Moving swiftly onward... While chugging slowly through thread #9 earlier today I came across one of the earliest interviews with MWT and John Stapleton on GMTV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmWjgJbTlpI

This piece includes a cctv still of CL leaving work on the 18th, but also two stills (including one “enhanced” image - see below) of her (presumably) arriving at work that day.

My two questions are:
Is that a bag she is holding in front of her?
If so, what colour would you say it is?

View attachment 291905

Do you think we are being shown this still because this is the same bag that appears on the alleyman footage?
 
Blood is thicker than water, as the saying goes. I don't see anybody cracking any time soon. No divorces in that family, you can be sure of that lol.
If they are watching this thread I’d like them to know they and there friends are only one slip up away from this case being blown wide open. They may think they got away with it but the truth has a funny way of coming out
 
If they are watching this thread I’d like them to know they and there friends are only one slip up away from this case being blown wide open. They may think they got away with it but the truth has a funny way of coming out
I imagine the POI from years ago will be closely watched by NYP. I'm sure there will be hair raising times for them. I admire your optimism.
 
I agree it always comes back it always comes back to loyality to perpertrators from the people who know. The NYP have said this on numerous occassions so we need to be guided by them when they appeal for particular information from the public. The identification of alleyman/men in my opinion is key. Identify those people and the ones that appear on that cctv and the footage of Melrosegate on thurs morning and the answer to why such loyality exists will become clear.

IMO

The CCTV of alleyman and the timing almost felt to me like a message to the perps interviewed saying we know this is you and we know you lied about where you were (but you had an alibi who lied) so own up or we release this footage for the public to identify you. Maybe it’s unrelated but it feels like a carefully timed release they were sitting on for a while.
 
Hi everyone, I followed this case for a while but I’m a new member here.

I don’t like the fact that there is so many different theories that just get too convoluted to follow. I’ve seen theories about whether it was drugs related, it was the dad, it was random, it was an accident.. none of them make any sense in the timeline we know. It couldn’t have been a morning operation.. if you try to think like a murderer would doing it in the morning when a lot of activity is happening make sense? Nope

That leads us to a night time operation but it wasn’t really an operation was it? What happened afterwards was the operation IMO. She met with someone a few hours after returning from work. She was at what she thought was a safe enough haven to ring her parents and then the trigger point which caused a chain of events to occur leading to a swift operation to clean up the trail.

Could one person do that on there own without any help? Not likely. Was it a pure accident followed by a cover up? Not likely either. Was the person(s) who did it and involved with the cover up known to some of Claudia’s friends? I’d say yes, they may even know or have some idea who it could be but either don’t feel they have enough like the police to say or have actively chosen not to say anything at least publicly.

So where do we go from here? Well until one of them has the guts to stand up and speak (because it’s believed there is multiple people involved and even more in the know) we won’t ever get a definitive answer.

Where did they hide the body? That’s also related to multiple people being involved because it would be much harder to hide a body without having outside help. So whoever was involved had to have had knowledge or had access to knowledge and equipment to quickly dispose of a body.

This leads us to the the 4 POI’s, two of whom were brothers who have a building firm(?) and then that’s when things become a bit murky.. the police have enough that they felt confident to escalate it. The perpetrators must know the police are on to them so it’s now a case of waiting for one of them to slip up.

So how can it possibly be solved without people in the know coming forward? Like most cases it’s mainly by pure luck or by someone growing a backbone. In a case like this with the type people involved there’s not a lot of hope for it being the latter.

My biggest question is why so much loyalty to the perpetrators from the people who know? The only two answers I can come up with is blood relation or drugs.. But just to be clear I don’t think she was killed because of drugs.. but it might have had something to do with why nobody who could help is coming forward with useful information.
I doubt a reward will encourage anyone to come forward with vital information - rarely works
 
Regarding Alleyman, I've seen numerous mentions of Alley man being the deceased RC and so ruled out of any nefarious actions. However, NYP still seem to think Alleyman is relevant. Who exactly ruled out Alleyman on the grounds that it was RC?
 
Regarding Alleyman, I've seen numerous mentions of Alley man being the deceased RC and so ruled out of any nefarious actions. However, NYP still seem to think Alleyman is relevant. Who exactly ruled out Alleyman on the grounds that it was RC?
No one .The police though it might be RC at first but clearly since they are still looking for him years later , they must have changed their mind .
 
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