UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #17

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Officer Dibble

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I’ve always been of the opinion she was abducted the morning of the 19th.

I think alley man went there the night before to check she was actually sleeping there that night and not somewhere else, was probably looking to see if lights were on. Once he had confirmation she was there he returned the following morning, again checked she hadn’t already left. Then returned to his car parked somewhere near the front of the house then lay in wait for her to leave for work.

I think alley man was known to her (either a lover or admirer) and has offered her a lift to work which she has reluctantly accepted.


I also believe there is only 1 perp involved. If it was 4 or 5 I genuinely think one of them would have slipped up by now or DNA from one of them would have been found somewhere.

BBM. This is so simple and yet could plausibly be it. Often the simplest things are the answer. I'm seriously considering this as the answer. Do we know what vehicle it could have been? JMO
 

cortina

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But what are you checking for at that time of the morning?

my thoughts too...but I was once in a flat share and the. landlord used. to keep conk of everyone who visited and left and how. long they stayed for...think he'd got his whole family in on it...maybe the police should have put him on this case
 

BryterLayter

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BBM. This is so simple and yet could plausibly be it. Often the simplest things are the answer. I'm seriously considering this as the answer. Do we know what vehicle it could have been? JMO
But in the evening it was only 7pm that alleyway man was seen on the camera, surely if he was casing her home he would have to go back later than this to ensure she didn’t go out after 7pm? Forgive me if I missing something?!
 

cortina

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I’ve always been of the opinion she was abducted the morning of the 19th.

I think alley man went there the night before to check she was actually sleeping there that night and not somewhere else, was probably looking to see if lights were on. Once he had confirmation she was there he returned the following morning, again checked she hadn’t already left. Then returned to his car parked somewhere near the front of the house then lay in wait for her to leave for work.

I think alley man was known to her (either a lover or admirer) and has offered her a lift to work which she has reluctantly accepted.

I also believe there is only 1 perp involved. If it was 4 or 5 I genuinely think one of them would have slipped up by now or DNA from one of them would have been found somewhere.

I dont know if there was only one perp....but im pretty sure that quite. a. few people know what happened and they've managed to keep quiet and would have been a. big help in clearing up any traces....there was also unidentified Dna in Claudius car and house...we dont know if it was related to her disappearance or not

as to whether the incident took place in the evening or the morning, you can look at it two ways....either you say there have been 2 lead detectives and they disagree but each view carries. equal weight or you can say that the second view...that something happened after she phoned her mother...was arrived at after further matters came to light, making the original assumption. highly unlikely
 

BryterLayter

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I dont know if there was only one perp....but im pretty sure that quite. a. few people know what happened and they've managed to keep quiet and would have been a. big help in clearing up any traces....there was also unidentified Dna in Claudius car and house...we dont know if it was related to her disappearance or not

as to whether the incident took place in the evening or the morning, you can look at it two ways....either you say there have been 2 lead detectives and they disagree but each view carries. equal weight or you can say that the second view...that something happened after she phoned her mother...was arrived at after further matters came to light, making the original assumption. highly unlikely
I think the fact that her friends didn’t have any contact with her between Wednesday evening until they notified police Friday lunchtime despite SC being stood up within this timeframe rings alarm bells to me, especially as she lived so close to the Nags Head.
JMO
 

Woodburnbay

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But in the evening it was only 7pm that alleyway man was seen on the camera, surely if he was casing her home he would have to go back later than this to ensure she didn’t go out after 7pm? Forgive me if I missing something?!
Perhaps he did go back later but the police decided to show the clearest shot of him.
Im sure that there is more footage that has not been released. IMO
 

Vixey

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Perhaps he did go back later but the police decided to show the clearest shot of him.
Im sure that there is more footage that has not been released. IMO
Was the Landlord caretaker at limes court or any connection to the student accommodation?
 
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Willowy

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Ddm
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BBM. This is so simple and yet could plausibly be it. Often the simplest things are the answer. I'm seriously considering this as the answer. Do we know what vehicle it could have been? JMO

Agree the explanation is most likely to be this simple. Some of the theories on here are fascinating, but I'd be absolutely astonished if it really turned out to be some underworld gang, or a plot devised by a whole group of her friends. It's difficult to comprehend how and why something so terrible could happen with such ease.

Imo alleyman worked at the Nag's or lived on the street and was well known to Claudia. He set up 'bumping into' her as she left the house for work and offered her a lift. I'm guessing he said he was parked round the back of the Nag's, and led her down the pub's alley. Whether his car was there or not, or what happened beyond this point, who knows. Not totally ruling out white coat man's involvement. His presence so early, and the fact it apparently took him 45ish minutes to walk a small stretch of road, still seems unusual.
 

Woodburnbay

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I think the fact that her friends didn’t have any contact with her between Wednesday evening until they notified police Friday lunchtime despite SC being stood up within this timeframe rings alarm bells to me, especially as she lived so close to the Nags Head.
JMO
I read that on the night that SC and CL were due to meet at The Nags head, JK was working behind the bar.
At closing time they both left at the same time.
JK left with PR who was also in the pub also and they turned Left and passed CL house but did not check on her.
SC who lived in direction of Tang Hall, turned right and would not go past CL house.

But I agree, why would all 3 of them not go and knock. Unless of course they were worried that she had a visitor didn't want to spoil things.

However at circa 23:00 on the Thursday evening, CL had observed radio silence for 26 hours at this point.
CL the prolific tester had not been in touch since circa 21:00 the day before according to all records.

Perhaps she had messaged one of the 3 and for some reason they had not declared this?

If this was the case-Why
If they had not received a message for this long-why did they not investigate??
 

Woodburnbay

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Ddm


Agree the explanation is most likely to be this simple. Some of the theories on here are fascinating, but I'd be absolutely astonished if it really turned out to be some underworld gang, or a plot devised by a whole group of her friends. It's difficult to comprehend how and why something so terrible could happen with such ease.

Imo alleyman worked at the Nag's or lived on the street and was well known to Claudia. He set up 'bumping into' her as she left the house for work and offered her a lift. I'm guessing he said he was parked round the back of the Nag's, and led her down the pub's alley. Whether his car was there or not, or what happened beyond this point, who knows. Not totally ruling out white coat man's involvement. His presence so early, and the fact it apparently took him 45ish minutes to walk a small stretch of road, still seems unusual.
Interested in how you calculated that it took him 45ish minutes to walk a small stretch of road.
 

Woodburnbay

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But what are you checking for at that time of the morning?
Originally the video was thought to be RC the landlord for some of the properties in Heworth Place. Then things changed and after he had died suddenly they were still looking for someone else (Police).
If I recall, the second video of alley man was not shown until after the second senior officer took over the case in 2015.
I could be wrong here.
 
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Woodburnbay

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Great points!…. but odd when the police put the video van outside the Limes in 2015? and focused on the footage of alleyway man and asked for any locals to ID him that no one came forward?…or maybe they did and another thing held back by police
When in 2015 did the video van turn up as the 4 were arrested in 2015.
Did someone come forward but police took their time piecing evidence.

I believe that the sequence of events after the video van was then a fingertip search of alley for first time since CL disappeared followed by the arrests.
 

Novosti

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I lean towards some sort of group involvement, for two reasons. First, the effectiveness of the crime - immaculate body disposal and no other meaningful evidence. This happens, but it's usually done by gangs or groups - it is really difficult for someone working alone to pull this off. Second, the sustained and consistent obstruction and lying to the police from a small group of people. This suggests some degree of co-culpability.

But I agree that in terms of motive, the individual perpetrator idea is more compelling. Because an act of rage or uncontrolled jealousy more likely from an individual.

Ddm


Agree the explanation is most likely to be this simple. Some of the theories on here are fascinating, but I'd be absolutely astonished if it really turned out to be some underworld gang, or a plot devised by a whole group of her friends. It's difficult to comprehend how and why something so terrible could happen with such ease.

Imo alleyman worked at the Nag's or lived on the street and was well known to Claudia. He set up 'bumping into' her as she left the house for work and offered her a lift. I'm guessing he said he was parked round the back of the Nag's, and led her down the pub's alley. Whether his car was there or not, or what happened beyond this point, who knows. Not totally ruling out white coat man's involvement. His presence so early, and the fact it apparently took him 45ish minutes to walk a small stretch of road, still seems unusual.
 

Sillybilly

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Hey everyone,

Many posts have had to be edited to change RC's full name to initials only.

Other than the victim, do not use the full name of anyone who has not been officially named by MSM or LE to be a POI or suspect in any case. We don't want to add to the burden of any innocent person or their family because their name has somehow been dragged into a high profile case by splashing their name all over WS. This is a rule we chose to implement because we feel it is the right thing to do.

In Claudia's case it is fine to refer to her mom and dad by their name because they have intentionally made themselves public figures and placed themselves in the public eye with a view to finding out what happened to their daughter.

Please use initials and post responsibly.

Thanks.
 

Officer Dibble

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Originally the video was thought to be RC the landlord for some of the properties in Heworth Place. Then things changed and after he had died suddenly they were still looking for someone else (Police).
If I recall, the second video of alley man was not shown until after the second senior officer took over the case in 2015.
I could be wrong here.

Does this help?

 
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