UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #17

[cortina]

@Pinkizzy the quote from your link to MSM below:

"Claudia was last sighted at around 3.05pm on Wednesday 18 March at the junction of Heworth Road and East Parade walking back towards her home on Heworth Road."



The quote from @Nikynoo's MSM link below:

"A friend driving past spotted her on Melrosegate and offered her a lift, which she accepted, and she was then dropped off at her cottage on Heworth Road at approximately 2.50pm. A friend later saw her returning home at 3.05pm and there was a reported sighting in between of her posting a letter nearby."



It would seem that CL accepted a lift from the first friend she met walking home at 14:50. A final sighting of CL was at 15:05 on East Parade when she was seen by a friend, walking towards Heworth Road.

It would appear that CL may have gone out again after being dropped of at home courtsey of the lift.....or maybe not gone inside her house at all!

The problem with this case, like that of Suzy Lamplugh, is that there is so much conflicting information and anecdotal 'evidence' that has gone unchecked and become fact.

I am sure that we all know that the press very rarely fact check the detail or the context of what they are printing. They're in the business of selling papers not supporting our detailed understanding.

Ideally best information is from the police press releases and treat everything else with a healthy dose of scepticism.

yes...im sure at least one of those mystery boyfriend accounts have been planted...but I don't know how many

 

[cortina]

It's highly unlikely that a group of essentially disparate souls will conspire to murder and/or cover up such a serious crime. This is the realm of Serious and Organised Crime.

Murder is rarely planned, unless it is a professional hit. It is invariably a crime of the moment, when someone loses control.

For this reason I would venture that only one is complicit in the murder, so no conspiracy.

Where there could be a second person involved (I can't see a thrird, fourth etc), is in the disposal of the body after the fact.

This would not be a conspiracy to commit murder if there was no pre-knowledge, but it could be an offence such as assisting an offender, preventing an unlawful burial, obstructing a Coroner, perverting the course of justice.....so many possible offences, depending on the precise circumstances.

This would most likely be someone closely related to the killer, as this often promotes loyalty.....however misguided.

are we necessarily talking about a. disparate group...or is it possible that it was a more organised. group and that a. disparate group know about it...its great to have your professional insights here

 

[Popejohn3]

Yes, it is not a means for the police to make direct contact with the informant or to be in possession of any identifying information. The request is managed via the Crime Stoppers anonymous portal.

The police add the request to the original information into the anonymous portal for a limited time, which is then accessed by the original informant using a code and password. The original informant can then provide the information requested anonymously.

The portal access is only available for up to 14 days, then everything is expunged from the Crime Stoppers system.

And since anonymous tip offs are deemed not to be so important or reliable they probably not get seen before 14 days

 

[Popejohn3]

Wether she got a lift or not is immaterial - it doesn’t effect the outcome one way or another. We all know the answer - I can’t see why you’re labouring the point. Let it go move on.

No way ! If she didn’t get a lift then police messed up big time and they should have been big enough to say so !
What else we’ve been told that is not true fhs

 

[Pinkizzy]

Claudia Lawrence investigation

It is now five years since Claudia Lawrence disappeared without trace in York. Despite the intensive efforts of the police, the resolve of her heart-broken family and saturated local, national and international media coverage, her sudden disappearance remains a mystery.

web.archive.org

 

[Woodburnbay]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>


There was clearly doubt in the mind of Mr Lawrence at the time he was shown the CCTV image of CL and certainly the image is not good enough for us to identify it being Claudia.
If someone did give her a lift home, as was stated in Crimewatch, then that does suggest that she walked at least some of that route home prior to having a lift.
Then there was the sighting later by the childminder who was stated as the last person to see and speak with Claudia.

Of course, if Claudia walked on a regular basis, the eye witnesses may have got their days wrong.

<modsnip>

Thank you.

 

[Woodburnbay]

yes, she did. On the way home:
'A friend driving past spotted her on Melrosegate and offered her a lift, which she accepted, and she was then dropped off at her cottage on Heworth Road at approximately 2.50pm. A friend later saw her returning home at 3.05pm and there was a reported sighting in between of her posting a letter nearby.'

All we know about Claudia Lawrence, 12 years on from the day she vanished

The 35-year-old disappeared in 2009 and, though a number of arrests have been made, no one has yet been charged over her suspected murder

www.examinerlive.co.uk

Yes and if you look at the Crimewatch reconstruction, Claudia is seen accepting a lift in a car driven by a lady named as Jo. Jo stopped her car in a lay-by approximately outside of a house at 225 Melrosegate.
The lay-by was after the post office and on the last leg of her journey home.

But as I mentioned in an earlier post, the police are unsure as to the validity of this witness statement.

perhaps Jo got her days wrong?

 

[Woodburnbay]

Someone asked the cold case team. Claudia met her friend at 3.05pm without accepting a lift from her friend

Correction-Claudia exchanged pleasantries with Linda a childminder-Not sure if they were friends though.

 

[Blonderabbit]

There was clearly doubt in the mind of Mr Lawrence at the time he was shown the CCTV image of CL and certainly the image is not good enough for us to identify it being Claudia.
If someone did give her a lift home, as was stated in Crimewatch, then that does suggest that she walked at least some of that route home prior to having a lift.
Then there was the sighting later by the childminder who was stated as the last person to see and speak with Claudia.

Of course, if Claudia walked on a regular basis, the eye witnesses may have got their days wrong.

<modsnip>

Thank you.

Of course, I totally agree with you and I guess what your saying is we can agree to disagree (of course) I think we are probably in many ways similar and that is why we clash. It is something that has been discussed before, I know the answer, I also have an opinion on this specific piece of evidence and having thought long and hard about it, I have arrived at - well does it actually matter anyway - which I feel it doesn’t. I get frustrated when we keep going back over this point.
If NYP want to crack this case then I believe it should have a revised timeline featuring what they know for sure, get rid of all the irrelevant info and just have a skeleton of what’s important

 

[Woodburnbay]

@Pinkizzy the quote from your link to MSM below:

"Claudia was last sighted at around 3.05pm on Wednesday 18 March at the junction of Heworth Road and East Parade walking back towards her home on Heworth Road."



The quote from @Nikynoo's MSM link below:

"A friend driving past spotted her on Melrosegate and offered her a lift, which she accepted, and she was then dropped off at her cottage on Heworth Road at approximately 2.50pm. A friend later saw her returning home at 3.05pm and there was a reported sighting in between of her posting a letter nearby."



It would seem that CL accepted a lift from the first friend she met walking home at 14:50. A final sighting of CL was at 15:05 on East Parade when she was seen by a friend, walking towards Heworth Road.

It would appear that CL may have gone out again after being dropped of at home courtsey of the lift.....or maybe not gone inside her house at all!

The problem with this case, like that of Suzy Lamplugh, is that there is so much conflicting information and anecdotal 'evidence' that has gone unchecked and become fact.

I am sure that we all know that the press very rarely fact check the detail or the context of what they are printing. They're in the business of selling papers not supporting our detailed understanding.

Ideally best information is from the police press releases and treat everything else with a healthy dose of scepticism.

I agree-MSM don't aways get it right and when one gets it wrong they just regurgitate it.
Whilst we are advised that assumptions should be supported with MSM, it won't always guarantee that our assumptions are fact based. That's why its best to do our own research.

 

[Woodburnbay]

I’d suggest you contact the current team at NYP if you are in any doubt to the answer to that question. It is reported in the msm variously that she does arrive home in Heworth after work On the afternoon of the 18th. When I think about what I think “possibly took place” I just find this irrelevant. I think what is regather more important is when she talked to mum and dad - no one can be 100% sure where she was then.

She is seen outside of her home.
This is different from arriving and going inside.

She could have taken herself off to the nags head or local shops and anyone could have invited her off to anywhere.

But as you say, we know that she was alive later when she spoke to her parents and apparently in good spirits and so if she was with someone, she must have felt safe at the time.

 

[Woodburnbay]

Of course, I totally agree with you and I guess what your saying is we can agree to disagree (of course) I think we are probably in many ways similar and that is why we clash. It is something that has been discussed before, I know the answer, I also have an opinion on this specific piece of evidence and having thought long and hard about it, I have arrived at - well does it actually matter anyway - which I feel it doesn’t. I get frustrated when we keep going back over this point.
If NYP want to crack this case then I believe it should have a revised timeline featuring what they know for sure, get rid of all the irrelevant info and just have a skeleton of what’s important

Yes I agree a new timeline and restate of all evidence that Police still believe is important.

I would still like Police to say if the 2 characters around Alleyway-Alleyman and white jacket, morning and evening are thought to be the same or similar people. I can't find this being said ever yet by police.

 

[Blonderabbit]

She is seen outside of her home.
This is different from arriving and going inside.

She could have taken herself off to the nags head or local shops and anyone could have invited her off to anywhere.

But as you say, we know that she was alive later when she spoke to her parents and apparently in good spirits and so if she was with someone, she must have felt safe at the time.

Because of the activity outside her home at around 9pm on the 18th, alleyman and the specifics of walking to work in her conversations with parents and friend - you guess she was at home - though further down the line - leaving for work, the unreplied Cyprus text, the missing text traffic in general - you wonder if she was elsewhere as she’s not seen anywhere on cctv, or by witness that can be verified 100% - so if she did leave when did She leave? Also “I” believe her phone was in Heworth a good six hours after her failure to arrive at work. I know this is disputed (triangulation etc) however I don’t think she was far away from her home if she did leave.

 

[FromGermany1]

It might be that Claudia was raped, killed and then put into a river (like Libby S.) by a complete deviant stranger.

Serialkiller CH comes to my mind again .....

 

[Blonderabbit]

Yes I agree a new timeline and restate of all evidence that Police still believe is important.

I would still like Police to say if the 2 characters around Alleyway-Alleyman and white jacket, morning and evening are thought to be the same or similar people. I can't find this being said ever yet by police.

I don’t think the team are 100% it’s the same person. - give NYP a ring. You may not get an answer straight away but you will get logged and called I’m sure. You can evaluate it by imagining it’s each of the four - then think about why they’d be there and what would they be doing. Three of the four I think are likely. 1 because he was friendly with Claudia. Two because of the proximity to a particular property.

 

[Woodburnbay]

Serialkiller CH comes to my mind again .....

Police have eliminated CH, he was receiving mental health treatment in Wiltshire/ Severn and Avon in a clinic at the time so let's not reopen this one.

its just convenient to blame him but if he then takes the credit, we never find the true culprit and that would be bad.

 

[Pinkizzy]

What's the reference to Saltburn?

 

[Nikynoo]

Police have eliminated CH, he was receiving mental health treatment in Wiltshire/ Severn and Avon in a clinic at the time so let's not reopen this one.

its just convenient to blame him but if he then takes the credit, we never find the true culprit and that would be bad.

Oooh, do you have anything to support this? I can then add to the Media thread. I knew CH had been discounted by LE, but I didn't know ths nugget of info! Thanks!

 

[Dotta]

Sorry to obsess about anonymous tips to Police

I have been following American case here on WS and that is what I found:

"Somebody knows something about Kiely. We are please, urging and pleading with the community, to please come forward. You will remain anonymous. Please contact us through our tipline, that number is..."
Source: CA - Kiely Rodni thread

I think it is routine for Police all over the world to rely on tips ( even anonymous) from the public.

MOO

 

[Popejohn3]

Sorry to obsess about anonymous tips to Police

I have been following American case here on WS and that is what I found:

"Somebody knows something about Kiely. We are please, urging and pleading with the community, to please come forward. You will remain anonymous. Please contact us through our tipline, that number is..."
Source: CA - Kiely Rodni thread

I think it is routine for Police all over the world to rely on tips ( even anonymous) from the public.

MOO

Yes but it seems NYP ignore these tips perhaps because the investigation is ‘top heavy ‘