UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #18

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Popejohn3

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I think if you evaluate it in “theory” take her phone as not having left Heworth till 10am. She’s not at home. Looks like she’s left in a rush - pots in the sink, toothbrush on the kitchen drainer (but bed made) she can’t have travelled far. It must be an option to travel north south east and west from Claudia home and establish how far you have to move to connect to a different sector. Then you’d find where - then it’s just when. 6am there’s no call from her, 8.23pm on the 18th is your last text - there’s your window. She must have been put in a vehicle at some point - when? The suv parked across the pavement at 9.01pm on the 18th has to be a favourite - did it just park up in Heworth and then the following morning move. She could have been in a boot - upon disposal the perp found her phone and switched it off
I would say yes in a booth but not necessarily the suv ! I remember reading that the owner of the suv came forward and would have thought the vehicle was searched for dna ? Was the vehicle found to be exceptionally clean !?
I also believe the police know the owner of the car next to the suv
 

Popejohn3

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Replying to myself - o dear! Could someone living in Heworth parked the car on the drive with Claudia in it, slept overnight in Heworth moved in the morning - partner none the wiser
Can one legally park ( then ) in front of Claudia’s house ?
 

Blonderabbit

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I would say yes in a booth but not necessarily the suv ! I remember reading that the owner of the suv came forward and would have thought the vehicle was searched for dna ? Was the vehicle found to be exceptionally clean !?
I also believe the police know the owner of the car next to the suv
I have read the owner of the suv came forward and was ruled out, but I don’t think it was an official source. What I wonder about these two vehicles is they were deliberately left in the bus cctv - so there’s significance - the time frame fits exactly to Claudias last known sign of life. I remember reading somewhere about her kitchen clock stopping at a particular time - something like 9.01. Battery operated - could just be a coincidence of course. I captured a man going between the cars and he looks to me to have a ripped sleeve - cortina says it was reported it was “kicking off” at around that time outside Claudias - wonder where Suzy cooper was then? Did she hear anything via the grapevine?
 

Blonderabbit

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I think apart from a confession the only way forward for the police is to find the body !
With Shadwell recent input I feel we are getting there. When I started looking at this case - for the first few years nothing new was revealed , but I’d say in the last six months I’ve found a lot more detail - the answers are here - some will surface through good detective work from posters like Shadwell and Raffy. Some will come from within Heworthers wanting closure
 

Raffy

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Did you pick up on this? I think it’s an error as I didn’t know she worked at the nags

“Nine people including several connected to the Nags Head pub where she worked pub have been arrested or interviewed under caution since 2013”

Yes, that will be an error, i can't find any reference to her having worked there.
 

shadwell

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Yes, that will be an error, i can't find any reference to her having worked there.
Yup - dodgy subbing. Though I think these days the journos put their copy online directly so the scope for error is increased.
 

shadwell

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Hi Shadwell again, good posts and I like your logical thinking. Would it be worth emailing cell mapper and asking them specifically for the information we are after ? Pj3 makes a good point - her employer calls at 10am to find out where she is and leaves a message - so phone will have connected at that point - guess it must still have been close to her home. It connects again at switch off 12.10pm - when it must have moved. Wonder if this is when it’s locations were established?
I’m still confused as to why you believe it must have moved between 10am and 12.10pm. Do we know for certain that it didn’t connect to the same tower at 12.10pm?
 

Blonderabbit

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I’m still confused as to why you believe it must have moved between 10am and 12.10pm. Do we know for certain that it didn’t connect to the same tower at 12.10pm?
We don’t know where it was switched off but reading between the lines we do know two points 1. The police say it was still local some four hours after she was due to start work. We also know the police are keen to identify a connection in Acomb
 

cortina

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I have read the owner of the suv came forward and was ruled out, but I don’t think it was an official source. What I wonder about these two vehicles is they were deliberately left in the bus cctv - so there’s significance - the time frame fits exactly to Claudias last known sign of life. I remember reading somewhere about her kitchen clock stopping at a particular time - something like 9.01. Battery operated - could just be a coincidence of course. I captured a man going between the cars and he looks to me to have a ripped sleeve - cortina says it was reported it was “kicking off” at around that time outside Claudias - wonder where Suzy cooper was then? Did she hear anything via the grapevine?
just to clarify....the police said things started kicking off but they didn't say whether they meant inside or. outside ...I hope they were watching how they said things...its. so very important...I don't understand why someone didn't ask them if that meant there were at least ructions or. just that. the events leading up to Claudius disappearance began then...eg, as I said in the previous post, just someone calling on her with no apparent dispute. taking place
 

shadwell

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Ah. Following the link in the Mail piece posted by Raffy to the original Sunday Times article, I discover that I could have saved myself a lot of faff the other day. From the article:

The call from her manager at 10am places her handset in an area that stretches nine miles from the university to Tockwith village and includes her home in the east of the city.

So the Newsquest video graphic is wrong in suggesting that the area covered by the 10am connection to the uni mast excludes Heworth Road. In light of this, to respond to the suggestion regarding contacting Mark Williams Thomas - it’s possible (both MWT and the Newsquest video presenter are on twitter) but I’m not sure that it would add anything beyond further confusion.

Sunday Times article (paywalled but you can sign up to read it for free):

 

shadwell

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We don’t know where it was switched off but reading between the lines we do know two points 1. The police say it was still local some four hours after she was due to start work. We also know the police are keen to identify a connection in Acomb
Hmm. Various takes on this, depending on the source. The Yorkshire Post has it as:

Analysis of Claudia’s phone show that it remained on until 12.10pm on the day of her disappearance and that it did not leave the local area.


… though of course this could be standard journalistic “Chinese whispers.”

The Sunday times piece about the phone (quoted previously) quotes the NYP source, thus:

“Her mobile phone never left the area of York,” the source said.

Though that in itself is ambiguous - it never left the Heworth Road area of York, or it never left the York area (which would include Acomb)? That said, we know NYP were able to triangulate the phone to Acomb previously, so should have been able to do the same on the 19th.


IMO there is no clear suggestion that the phone moved between 10am and 12.10pm on the 19th. Certainly the Acomb area was of interest, but more in terms of what CL was doing there in the weeks prior - who she was meeting etc than specifically in relation to the morning of the 19th.
 

shadwell

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I have read the owner of the suv came forward and was ruled out, but I don’t think it was an official source. What I wonder about these two vehicles is they were deliberately left in the bus cctv - so there’s significance - the time frame fits exactly to Claudias last known sign of life. I remember reading somewhere about her kitchen clock stopping at a particular time - something like 9.01. Battery operated - could just be a coincidence of course. I captured a man going between the cars and he looks to me to have a ripped sleeve - cortina says it was reported it was “kicking off” at around that time outside Claudias - wonder where Suzy cooper was then? Did she hear anything via the grapevine?
FWIW - the kitchen clock stopped at 9.36 approx - around the same time that (IIRC) the Ford Ranger was seen leaving by Limes Court cctv on the evening of the 18th. The possible relevance of it being battery powered was that a blow to the front of the clock (particularly if it was not mounted entirely flush to the wall) could dislodge the battery from its compartment, causing it to stop.

That said, the kitchen photo was taken in 2017 so, as you say it may simply be coincidence - the battery having run out at that time months or even years later. Photo source:


5185CF89-5419-4C5C-9CC7-99034164E8B1.jpeg
 

cortina

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I have read the owner of the suv came forward and was ruled out, but I don’t think it was an official source. What I wonder about these two vehicles is they were deliberately left in the bus cctv - so there’s significance - the time frame fits exactly to Claudias last known sign of life. I remember reading somewhere about her kitchen clock stopping at a particular time - something like 9.01. Battery operated - could just be a coincidence of course. I captured a man going between the cars and he looks to me to have a ripped sleeve - cortina says it was reported it was “kicking off” at around that time outside Claudias - wonder where Suzy cooper was then? Did she hear anything via the grapevine?
so maybe...and a very big maybe....the. whole thing started with some kind of fracas in the street...which may have had nothing or something to do with Claudia....claudia comes to the door...lets someone inside. for protection and or somebody forces their way in....or she's somehow caught in the. crossfire ...is taken or persuaded to be driven away for her own safety....more speculation and questions. coming up even after all this time
 

Blonderabbit

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I can’t
just to clarify....the police said things started kicking off but they didn't say whether they meant inside or. outside ...I hope they were watching how they said things...its. so very important...I don't understand why someone didn't ask them if that meant there were at least ructions or. just that. the events leading up to Claudius disappearance began then...eg, as I said in the previous post, just someone calling on her with no apparent dispute. taking place
t find anything on msm about “kicking off anywhere - so I’m not sure where you have that info from.
 

Blonderabbit

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Hmm. Various takes on this, depending on the source. The Yorkshire Post has it as:

Analysis of Claudia’s phone show that it remained on until 12.10pm on the day of her disappearance and that it did not leave the local area.


… though of course this could be standard journalistic “Chinese whispers.”

The Sunday times piece about the phone (quoted previously) quotes the NYP source, thus:

“Her mobile phone never left the area of York,” the source said.

Though that in itself is ambiguous - it never left the Heworth Road area of York, or it never left the York area (which would include Acomb)? That said, we know NYP were able to triangulate the phone to Acomb previously, so should have been able to do the same on the 19th.


IMO there is no clear suggestion that the phone moved between 10am and 12.10pm on the 19th. Certainly the Acomb area was of interest, but more in terms of what CL was doing there in the weeks prior - who she was meeting etc than specifically in relation to the morning of the 19th.
You are right in your analysis , however the general reporting at the time was that her phone remained local some 4 hours after she failed to turn up at work - why not say 6hrs if it was 6hrs?. I’m sure they know where it was switched off /ran out of charge.
 

Blonderabbit

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FWIW - the kitchen clock stopped at 9.36 approx - around the same time that (IIRC) the Ford Ranger was seen leaving by Limes Court cctv on the evening of the 18th. The possible relevance of it being battery powered was that a blow to the front of the clock (particularly if it was not mounted entirely flush to the wall) could dislodge the battery from its compartment, causing it to stop.

That said, the kitchen photo was taken in 2017 so, as you say it may simply be coincidence - the battery having run out at that time months or even years later. Photo source:


View attachment 384060
Yes that’s basically my thinking on this. I know where AC lived at the time. Do you know where the other three lived?
 

Blonderabbit

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It’s a tough one!

I just thought I’d take a look at your previous post Shadwell - you make some very good points. In thread 14 there’s a poster called Ms Elizabeth - she references the nags head being watched by the police - re dealing.
So you potentially have this situation with the police - nose to the ground and literally right under their noses someone is disappeared.

It’s the old rucksack which makes it difficult -she’s surely not going to take it to someone who lives local, she’s not going to take it to the nags - I think alleywayman must be picking it up at 7.15pm on the 18th - it’s the only expaination which seems viable iMO. Which would mean she’s not at home but close by
 
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