UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #4

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Not really a guess though is it, unless she had irregular periods. You just need date of last period and count 40 weeks.

That's literally not how pregnancy works and the vast majority of women would have no idea how far along they were had it not been for the invention of early conception pregnancy tests plus scanning that nowadays can take such tiny and accurate measurements.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

But were they "living a chaotic lifestyle" before they knew she was pregnant?
Wasn't the pregnancy the reason they embarked on a nomadic life?

<modsnip - if it can't be verified it can't be discussed here.> It seems indeed they went on the run in order to evade the child being removed by child protection - as per the appeal statement issued by CM's mother via mainstream media which makes that point quite clearly.

 

[Cherwell]

It's rather vague what they were up to before September but they were evicted from a flat in Eltham for rent arrears.
It's far from a definitive sign of a chaotic lifestyle, but not a sign of stability.

Rent arrears? I thought she had plenty of money, so that's odd.

 

[noseybonk]

Rent arrears? I thought she had plenty of money, so that's odd.

Non-payment can come down to lots of things, not just lack of money. Control, paranoia, curiosity to see if one can 'get away' with something, a feeling of entitlement, feeling like you're 'right' (e.g. if inadequate housing is provided, withholding payment), laziness/lack of effort (e.g. to set up a direct debit). Speaking generally here, not in regards to this specific case - definitely still odd (as you say), but plenty of potential reasons behind it.

 

[amaraya]

Rent arrears? I thought she had plenty of money, so that's odd.

I think there were other issues that made daily responsibilities difficult to manage, proof in not having previous children and noncommunication with family, in addition to their comments in their pleas to her.

Imho

 

[Nikynoo]

That's literally not how pregnancy works and the vast majority of women would have no idea how far along they were had it not been for the invention of early conception pregnancy tests plus scanning that nowadays can take such tiny and accurate measurements.

Really? I’ve had three children and knew when my last period was with each one. In fact that was the first question my doctor asked.

I don’t wish to be rude, but I am rather gob smacked by your answer. How does it work nowadays?

 

[Nikynoo]

I think there were other issues that made daily responsibilities difficult to manage, proof in not having previous children and noncommunication with family, in addition to their comments in their pleas to her.

Imho

I think everything went downhill really quickly. I’m not sure whether it was having babies so close together or something else.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Really? I’ve had three children and knew when my last period was with each one. In fact that was the first question my doctor asked.

I don’t wish to be rude, but I am rather gob smacked by your answer. How does it work nowadays?

In that case I respect your experience. I guess I should re-phrase it to many women are far too chaotic and have irregular cycles and or breakthrough bleeding and were it not for early detection pregnancy tests and the high level of accuracy of scans, would not have any idea how far gone they are. I have a close relative who was astounded to find out she was pregnant only a few weeks before the baby was due.

 

[Amaz0nia]

Yep, cryptic pregnancy is a thing

I had heard of them but was always a bit sceptical until it happened to someone I know. Didn't find out she was pregnant until about two weeks before she gave birth! She was in the middle of her A Levels at the time, a bright girl living a very ordinary sort of life. Washboard abs throughout, other symptoms were put down to another known illness. She'd been seeing doctors about another illness and they didn't pick up on it either. It was another teenage friend who joined the dots and suggested a pregnancy test.

I only found out i was pregnant at 7 monhs as i had trouble breathing & went to the doctor as i thought it was my asthma…i was 35 & my son was born early 1 week later -was a bit of a shock to be honest as we never thought we would have any kids. He had jaundice and had to have medical help to strenghen his lungs for a few weeks after birth. It can happen as I had no idea and only put on 6.5lbs my son was 6.7lbs when born. I hadnt had a period for 4-5years before he was born as had a pitutiary tumour since i was 18 which messed my hormones about.

 

[Amaz0nia]

Really? I’ve had three children and knew when my last period was with each one. In fact that was the first question my doctor asked.

I don’t wish to be rude, but I am rather gob smacked by your answer. How does it work nowadays?

I only found out i was pregnant at 7 monhs as i had trouble breathing & went to the doctor as i thought it was my asthma…i was 35 & my son was born early 1 week later -was a bit of a shock to be honest as we never thought we would have any kids. He had jaundice and had to have medical help to strenghen his lungs for a few weeks after birth. It can happen as I had no idea and only put on 6.5lbs my son was 6.7lbs when born. I hadnt had a period for 4-5years before he was born as had a pitutiary tumour since i was 18 which messed my hormones about.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Really? I’ve had three children and knew when my last period was with each one. In fact that was the first question my doctor asked.

I don’t wish to be rude, but I am rather gob smacked by your answer. How does it work nowadays?

Just wanted to add that I have had 5 children and before I saw the doctors i would work out due dates myself and i was only ever a few days off or spot on. like you say, the first thing they ask is the date of your last period. Although I understand if people dont know that date then it could be a stab in the dark.
ETA: Although I was right about the due date of my 4th, she came 3 months early due to pre-eclampsia.

 

[DizzyBee]

My periods are super irregular. With both of mine I was able to work out my EDD based on when I thought I would have conceived/when I got a positive test (and was correct within a handful of days) but I’m a midwife and am fairly in tune with my cycles in terms of symptoms of ovulation etc. Both times I literally woke up and was like ‘I’m definitely pregnant and should take a test’ at about 3.5 weeks (which was before my period would have been due if I was in any way regular). However, my EDDs based off my LMP were 6-8 weeks off.

I’ve often met women who genuinely had no idea they were pregnant until fairly late on, or who contact us with no idea when their last period was. When you aren’t planning a pregnancy it’s easy not to keep track, especially when you are on what you think is reliable contraception!

However, just in my opinion (and with the benefit of professional experience), I think this pregnancy may have been at least semi-planned, if not consciously, then unconsciously longed for. When women have children removed, it is very common to keep having babies in the hope that eventually you will be allowed to ‘have another go’ or ‘start fresh’.

I absolutely can’t say that this was the case with CM of course, but it’s a startlingly common occurrence.

 

[kittythehare]

"She and Mark Gordon are believed to have begun their relationship around a similar period and they became isolated from friends and family. They were living in the Eltham area and in 2020 were living on the Coldharbour Estate before they were evicted for not paying their rent. Until their disappearance, the couple had been living in a series of Air BnB’s in several locations across the UK."

Missing mum had 'It Girl' life before disappearing with sex offender and baby

The couple have been missing since January 5 with the Met Police stressing that they could be anywhere in the UK

www.mylondon.news

<modsnip: No link to information stated as fact>

I'm up to speed on the past threads, thanks.
My post referred to facts.

 

[azure]

I'm up to speed on the past threads, thanks.
My post referred to facts.

I'll just leave this here for anyone curious:
"Gordon and Marten were reportedly evicted from their home in Ilford. Where they went next is unclear, though by August 2020 they were living on the Coldharbour Estate in Greenwich. Neighbours told the Evening Standard that shouting was sometimes heard from the flat and that Marten and Gordon would spend long periods of time elsewhere. The tenancy agreement was in Marten’s name, but the couple were not paying rent. They were evicted in August last year, and are reported to have left smoke damage and a partially collapsed ceiling, with the damage amounting to thousands of pounds’ worth of repairs."

Constance Marten: The missing aristocrat, her rapist partner and the family rift

Her upbringing had all the trappings of high society, so how did Constance Marten come to be on the run for weeks on end with a sex offender 13 years her senior? Tom Ough reports

www.independent.co.uk

"Constance and Gordon, who is 13 years her senior, are believed to have been living in a rundown flat on Greenwich’s Coldharbour Estate at the time. This is one of several addresses in and around the capital that they’d frequented in recent years. They were repeatedly evicted by landlords, in some cases at least for not paying rent — despite her continuing to have access to a multimillion-pound trust fund at the UK’s oldest private bank, C. Hoare & Co."

The aristocrat, the convicted sex offender and the urgent search for their baby

Tatler It-girl Constance Marten, 35, was born into one of England’s most prominent aristocratic families — now, she’s been arrested after 54 days on the run with a convicted rapist and their newborn child. Katie Strick reports

www.standard.co.uk

 

[dotr]

My periods are super irregular. With both of mine I was able to work out my EDD based on when I thought I would have conceived/when I got a positive test (and was correct within a handful of days) but I’m a midwife and am fairly in tune with my cycles in terms of symptoms of ovulation etc. Both times I literally woke up and was like ‘I’m definitely pregnant and should take a test’ at about 3.5 weeks (which was before my period would have been due if I was in any way regular). However, my EDDs based off my LMP were 6-8 weeks off.

I’ve often met women who genuinely had no idea they were pregnant until fairly late on, or who contact us with no idea when their last period was. When you aren’t planning a pregnancy it’s easy not to keep track, especially when you are on what you think is reliable contraception!

However, just in my opinion (and with the benefit of professional experience), I think this pregnancy may have been at least semi-planned, if not consciously, then unconsciously longed for. When women have children removed, it is very common to keep having babies in the hope that eventually you will be allowed to ‘have another go’ or ‘start fresh’.

I absolutely can’t say that this was the case with CM of course, but it’s a startlingly common occurrence.

Sometimes even midwives (doulas) are unsure of a pregnancy, noting this recent and very disgusting unrelated case, fwiw..

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/ontario-doulas-brantford-woman-fraud-1.6778747

''Investigators say she allegedly sought the assistance of registered doulas across the province for false pregnancies and false stillbirths from June 2022 to February 2023.''

''March 16, 2023

Hamilton woman ‘traumatized’ by alleged provincewide doula fraud

Brantford woman facing dozens of charges in relation to alleged months-long scam

www.thespec.com

''A Hamilton woman is questioning whether she’ll continue on as a birth worker after she alleges she was conned as part of a provincewide doula fraud.

Kristen Aul, 24, is one of several doulas from across Ontario who have taken to social media to share their experience with a woman who Brantford police say allegedly hired doulas for pregnancies and stillbirths that turned out to be fake.

Police announced Tuesday that Kaitlyn Braun, 24, of Brantford is facing dozens of charges in relation to the alleged months-long scam. The charges, which include sexual assault, criminal harassment, fraud, false pretences and committing an indecent act, have not been proven in court.''

 

[starlightstarbright]

Doulas are not at all the same thing as a midwife. Midwives are properly clinically trained. Doulas (and I’ve had one for both of my births) are supporters for birthing women. Mine made me tea and entertained my children while I was in labour. Very different things though the case above sounds weird enough anyway.

 

[sunnynz]

Can someone please remind me what’s next in the process? When are they next due to appear in court?

 

[iamshadow21]

Can someone please remind me what’s next in the process? When are they next due to appear in court?

@CaptainNancy with some answers from the beginning of this thread:

UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #4 *Arrest*

So, end of the month.

 

[Alyce]

Can someone please remind me what’s next in the process? When are they next due to appear in court?

Friday March 31 at Central Criminal Court

 

[rightsaidfred]

Sometimes even midwives (doulas)

Midwives and doulas are totally different things.

In the UK, midwives are medical professionals who need a university degree in the subject, and most NHS maternity care in the UK is carried out by midwives.

Doulas do not require qualifications, and have a supportive but not medical role in childbirth. They're very much an optional service, and not something you'd get on the NHS.