UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #4

[JTT]

There was an interview with her in 2013 by Cosmopolitan magazine where she claimed she was sent to a place in her teens because of behavioural problems . She said that she was in a dormitory with 50 girls , watched by armed guards , starved, woken at night for biblical readings and made to call the leader Daddy.

Constance Marten was 'groomed by Nigerian sect leader as a teenager'

Constance Marten (pictured), 35, spent six months in a compound near the country's capital of Lagos as a teen where she was forced to stay in a dormitory of 50 girls.

www.dailymail.co.uk

"It is being reported" may mean here:

Runaway mum Constance Marten was 'groomed' by evil Nigerian sect leader

RUNAWAY mum Constance Marten was “groomed” by a Nigerian sect leader. Marten, 35 — charged with manslaughter alongside lover Mark Gordon, 48 — was sent to a compound near Lagos for six months as a …

www.thesun.co.uk

If so, strange the Mail don't reference Cosmo.

"One ex-partner said her time there had left her traumatised, while a former member of the same cult revealed she would have been forced to take part in 'intense' work while on the compound."

The "would have" bit is not reporting AFAIAC. Is there a source for her being forced to work? This definitely isn't one.

<modsnip: Sleuthing ex-partner is not allowed>

 

[JTT]

I can barely make out anything, but I'd be very surprised if he calls her "Constance". It's a rather formal kind of name that is usually abbreviated to Connie, and most people seem to call her Toots anyway.

He could call her both. See what you think at 00.24 in the video here, where they are walking from right to left:

Aristocrat's lover appears injured with stick and 'without baby' before arrests

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon were further arrested on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter yesterday, as a major police search for a two-month-old baby continues into its second day

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Cherwell]

He could call her both. See what you think at 00.24 in the video here, where they are walking from right to left:

Aristocrat's lover appears injured with stick and 'without baby' before arrests

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon were further arrested on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter yesterday, as a major police search for a two-month-old baby continues into its second day

www.mirror.co.uk

Video doesn't load for me.

 

[bladeaok]

I've never been able to find that cosmo interview though - has anyone else?

Nope! I looked for it everywhere, searching the website for her name and the year it was supposedly posted. I suppose there's always a chance it was deleted, given the circumstances.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I believe he went to the USA around the age of 11/12 and I also believe that he settled in London in 2010 when deported.

Chances are his accent will be mixed / leaning towards american sounding?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Completely agree with the normal conversation. Like I said before, the tone and inflection in both of their speech seems pretty normal but I did feel like CM was 'in charge' ,as in he relied on her

Also, she had his wallet as per 'give me my wallet back'. It's not a sign of being controlled by an abuser to a) have their wallet in the first place; b) them asking give it back in a pleading tone; c) her asking how much has been spent.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Also, she had his wallet as per 'give me my wallet back'. It's not a sign of being controlled by an abuser to a) have their wallet in the first place; b) them asking give it back in a pleading tone; c) her asking how much has been spent.

Oh, I never said it was abuse.
I said it seemed like she was in charge and he relied on her which would make sense if he is injured plus the tone and inflection to me sound like he is asking if she has his wallet, she says yes, and he says good. I have no idea what is said after. But the inflection in the first sentence has a rise at the end, which wouldn't sound right to 'give me my wallet back' but makes sense if it is a question 'do you have my wallet' there is definitely a rise at the end, and she gives the one-word answer, then he replies good, the tone and inflection of good is flat and could well be 'toots,' but I hear 'good'.

 

[JTT]

Regarding words heard on the audio, a warning: nobody should feel they "know" with 100% certainty what word or phrase is being spoken at any time. The brain is capable of applying logic using facts and experiences that are external to what you are hearing, it can apply this logic without you knowing it, and it can do it wrong.

For example when I was in a car accident caused by someone driving his car into the back of mine when I was stationary on a motorway, causing my car to travel forwards into the car in front of me, I thought to myself when being pushed forwards that I must have stopped on a downward slope and left the car in neutral without realising. Actually that wasn't true. But afterwards I realised that my brain had applied logic. It knew that in the normal course of things the only forces that make a car travel forwards are 1. the engine, and 2. gravity. It had excluded 1, and it had played Sherlock by concluding that 2 must be the truth. It hadn't taken into consideration that 1 and 2 aren't the only possibilities, because there is 3 - something pushes the car along the road from behind. (There are other unusual possibilities too.)

 

[MsBetsy]

Isn't the autopsy supposed to be done today? I wonder if they'll be able to determine whether or not Victoria died from natural causes.

If the body is badly decomposed I wonder if it's possible to establish that the baby was born alive or died shortly afterwards.

I know a taxi driver said he heard the sound of a baby, but has anyone actually reported seeing the baby with them at any time?

 

[iamshadow21]

Isn't the autopsy supposed to be done today? I wonder if they'll be able to determine whether or not Victoria died from natural causes.

If the body is badly decomposed I wonder if it's possible to establish that the baby was born alive or died shortly afterwards.

I know a taxi driver said he heard the sound of a baby, but has anyone actually reported seeing the baby with them at any time?

It was the opinion of myself and a couple of other posters that carrying a dead child for more than a couple of days would be almost impossible. Certainly, nobody would be letting someone in a taxi with a deceased infant. To be blunt, even in winter, the odour of decomposition would be overpowering.

This is just my opinion, however, so your mileage may vary.

 

[Nikynoo]

Isn't the autopsy supposed to be done today? I wonder if they'll be able to determine whether or not Victoria died from natural causes.

If the body is badly decomposed I wonder if it's possible to establish that the baby was born alive or died shortly afterwards.

I know a taxi driver said he heard the sound of a baby, but has anyone actually reported seeing the baby with them at any time?

i thought it was done last week and the cause of death was unascertained awaiting further testing.

Mystery over baby’s cause of death as more tests needed, police say

A post-mortem examination on Constance Marten’s baby was unable to establish a cause of death, the Metropolitan Police have said.

www.theboltonnews.co.uk

 

[Themac101]

Hi, re MG accent, do we know anything about it yet from any verified sources?

By aged 14 he was resident in the USA where he was convicted for 20 years. Do we know what age he went to USA? As his accent would have likely been changed by those years. Also I read elsewhere (not verified) that himself and CM have been living around the Brixton area for years. Unsure what his heritage is or what accent his parent / care givers may have raised him with or if he immigrated into UK as a child and that would be another factor.

You can guarantee that having lived in America since age 14 and doing considerable prison time there, he will have an African American accent. Had he emigrated there later in life, it would be less so. You can totally disregard him having any sort of Birmingham accent.

 

[Alyce]

Isn't the autopsy supposed to be done today? I wonder if they'll be able to determine whether or not Victoria died from natural causes.

If the body is badly decomposed I wonder if it's possible to establish that the baby was born alive or died shortly afterwards.

I know a taxi driver said he heard the sound of a baby, but has anyone actually reported seeing the baby with them at any time?

I wouldn't have expected them to still have nappies with them in Brighton if Victoria had died prior to January 8, in London.

 

[Doughy]

I wouldn't have expected them to still have nappies with them in Brighton if Victoria had died prior to January 8, in London.

Exactly this.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

In other cases where it is the parents on remand for a death they haven't been allowed. Even little Arthur's mum wasn't allowed leave for his funeral despite it not being her and being in prison for a completely different crime.

That's awful. My nephew was given leave and attended my sisters funeral, albeit in handcuffs and accompanied by a prison officer.
I totally get why the parent responsible for little Arthur's death couldn't attend but not his poor Mother, that's terrible. Jmo

 

[iamshadow21]

I wouldn't have expected them to still have nappies with them in Brighton if Victoria had died prior to January 8, in London.

And if Victoria had died at birth, they wouldn't have needed nappies for her at all.

The specialist paediatric pathologist will be able to look at her remains and hopefully fairly accurately estimate her age at time of death. Then it's going to come down to maths. We know roughly when she was born, and when she was heard by taxi drivers. There will be indicators of her PMI. That should hopefully narrow the window to about a week or so.

MOO

 

[bladeaok]

The idea that CM considered making a documentary about the SCOAN in Nigeria rests on testimony from Joe Hurst, AFAICT, about whom I could find nothing else online.

It wasn't just based on his testimony, she also discusses it on her LinkedIn profile: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/constance-marten-93a6ab9a

 

[Zuleika]

And if Victoria had died at birth, they wouldn't have needed nappies for her at all.

The specialist paediatric pathologist will be able to look at her remains and hopefully fairly accurately estimate her age at time of death. Then it's going to come down to maths. We know roughly when she was born, and when she was heard by taxi drivers. There will be indicators of her PMI. That should hopefully narrow the window to about a week or so.

MOO

I agree with you about a week or so . Had they any contact with her after her decease the cadaverine emitted would have contaminated them ? That's a question btw . Going into shops etc. would alert other customers to that .

 

[iamshadow21]

I agree with you about a week or so . Had they any contact with her after her decease the cadaverine emitted would have contaminated them ? That's a question btw . Going into shops etc. would alert other customers to that .

If they had significant contact with her remains beyond a few days or so after death and were not able to wash properly, either their skin, or their clothing, I would expect there to be an odour. They wouldn't have to hold her body, just sharing a small enclosed space like the shed with a baby several days dead would be enough for the odour to bind to the oils in their skin and hair, making it impossible to remove without serious cleaning. Just soap and water wouldn't do it.

Personally, I think they deposited her there and left. I don't think they spent prolonged time in contact with her remains, especially after decomposition set in. I think it was a case of 'out of sight, out of mind'.

MOO

 

[Cherwell]

Personally, I think they deposited her there and left. I don't think they spent prolonged time in contact with her remains, especially after decomposition set in. I think it was a case of 'out of sight, out of mind'.

I find that hard to believe. They were in allotments! No easier place to bury her, probably not difficult to find a spade somewhere.