UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

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Amaz0nia said:
Theres a bit more updated here -theyve been arrested on child neglect. Apparently were sleeping in a caravan or outdoors
www.thesun.co.uk

Cops fear missing baby is at 'high risk' and they may have left it out in open

COPS who last night found missing mum Constance Marten and her lover Mark Gordon are desperately hunting for their “extremely high risk” baby. The Aristocrat and her convicted sex offen…
www.thesun.co.uk www.thesun.co.uk
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Sadly it seems that everything LE said all along was true-they were living outdoors, the infant was at serious risk. I'm not sure why so many refused to believe it.
 
azure said:
Sadly it seems that everything LE said all along was true-they were living outdoors, the infant was at serious risk. I'm not sure why so many refused to believe it.
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Similar thing with the Nicola Bulley case. The police usually have good reason to believe what they believe. I don't understand why some feel the need to ignore/go against everything the police say either.
 
I had wondered for a while if they found anything out via the placenta or car about the baby's condition that was with held.

I also, for some reason, thought of a story id heard a while ago about a woman whose newborn died and she carried it around as if it were still alive in a state of shock. Not saying thats what is up, just curious to find out what is. I cant imagine them leaving the baby unattended in this cold after all this time and energy trying to stay together.

I also think it was pretty obvious from the purchase of the tent and other items theyd be camping. I think there is either some serious drug or and mental health issues that impair their judgement and create issues like paranoia, etc. Hope that little one is found soon, and safe!
 
CocktailQueen said:
Does anyone know where they were found? Other than Brighton. Just wondering if they were actually camping or were being housed by friends.
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Stanmer Villas is a residential road but it connects at its northern end with Wild Park, which in turn connects with Stanmer Park and the downs above Falmer. In my mind, there's little doubt that they've been camping/sleeping rough on the downs between Newhaven and Brighton all this time, simply drifting west as time went on. Whether that was deliberate (perhaps they thought they'd be able to 'disappear' in Brighton) or just part of a general imperative to keep moving, idk.

It's good imo that they've been found and brought in, and I hope CM will be given the help she so clearly needs rather than being treated as a criminal. I'm not optimistic for the baby and tbh find myself wondering if it was even born alive. I am quite sure it isn't alive now, sadly.

JMO
 
Did anyone know C was pregnant before the blood and placenta were found in the burning car?
 
Arghhh just saw the "arrested" update but can't dive in deep because I'm working lol, will catch up at lunchtime (by which time I hope the baby has been found alive & well).
 
azure said:
Sadly it seems that everything LE said all along was true-they were living outdoors, the infant was at serious risk. I'm not sure why so many refused to believe it.
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Yes it seems that way, is sad they are not cooperating with the police on the babys whereabouts/wellbeing-im of course hoping the baby is ok and with someone but also hoping that out of desperation, it hasnt been given to someone within the T Joshua SCOAN church/cult for ‘safekeeping’
 
rightsaidfred said:
The poor baby. I really hope, but doubt, it's ok.

The video interview linked to above seems to suggest they weren't staying on Stanmer Villas; he makes reference to the nearby open land (Wild Park?) nearby that they were heading towards.

They also say they've had no new information since the arrests; presumably they're going no comment in the interviews - a common enough tactic but it does indicate that, unsurprisingly, they've got zero interest in helping the authorities find the baby. Either they've given the baby to someone they consider safe on the agreement they can visit (unlikely IMO) or the baby has died and they've buried it in an unmarked grave, and don't want a charge of 'causing or allowing the death of a child'.
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It’s interesting that The Sun quote a local resident as saying they heard a loud argument shortly before the police arrived. It makes me think they had a falling out with someone who was helping them, and that person then shopped to the police. It sounds like the police turned up quickly and in large numbers so they must have been pretty certain they’d found them which again implies a tip-off more than just a sighting.
 
Did we ever establish who or what was at the Haringey address CM and MG went to before leaving London?

It occurs to me that the whole trip to the south coast may have been a decoy operation to draw attention away from a location where they had left the baby with a trusted individual. I'm playing devil's advocate a little, as I don't think I believe CM would leave her newborn baby with someone else for anything, but it would have been a smart move.

I'm probably clutching at straws. The fate of the baby is tragic, however you look at it.

JMO
 
<modsnip>

The publicly available evidence is:

1. <modsnip: sub judice>
2. On her FB page she "likes" groups including one which characterises social services as Nazis.
3. Her FB appears to suggest that she has other children who are not with them.
4. They did not seek basic medical attention for their baby before or after birth, as any responsible parent in the modern world would. Instead she gave birth in the car.
5. The car was then torched or caught fire with most or all of their possessions. Rather than stay with the vehicle/seek help they set off cross-country with the baby and visited a number of ports (presumably not for sight-seeing).
6. They bought camping equipment and their behaviour is consistent with having lived rough with the baby in sub-zero temperatures.
7. They repeatedly declined to respond to appeals from police, medical services and family to come forward even to indicate the baby was OK.
8. They have now been discovered without the baby and are apparently refusing to tell police where it is.

In what world does the above not amount to a major child protection concern about a newborn baby?
 
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Sceptic Tank said:
<modsnip>

The publicly available evidence is:

1. He has a criminal record for violent sex offences. She must also know about this but has chosen to live and have children with him.
2. On her FB page she "likes" groups including one which characterises social services as Nazis.
3. Her FB appears to suggest that she has other children who are not with them.
4. They did not seek basic medical attention for their baby before or after birth, as any responsible parent in the modern world would. Instead she gave birth in the car.
5. The car was then torched or caught fire with most or all of their possessions. Rather than stay with the vehicle/seek help they set off cross-country with the baby and visited a number of ports (presumably not for sight-seeing).
6. They bought camping equipment and their behaviour is consistent with having lived rough with the baby in sub-zero temperatures.
7. They repeatedly declined to respond to appeals from police, medical services and family to come forward even to indicate the baby was OK.
8. They have now been discovered without the baby and are apparently refusing to tell police where it is.

In what world does the above not amount to a major child protection concern about a newborn baby?
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I think you have to see it from their point of view and their previous interactions with various agencies.

Some have the mindset that they know what is best for their children and don't see the need for societal 'norms' - even when it is clear to those on the outside that it is the parent putting their best interests forward and not the child's. As a grandparent, I have seen this on a personal basis and it is, being polite, 'frustrating'. On the other hand, on a professional level, I have worked at a local authority and SS can often times seem over zealous, under equipped and over idealised in what 'social norms' MUST be.

My major concern with the removal of children from the mother/family is the family courts. Because they are shrouded in secrecy, there is no clear oversight or transparency. IMO this is wrong.
 
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JuicyLucy said:
Did we ever establish who or what was at the Haringey address CM and MG went to before leaving London?

It occurs to me that the whole trip to the south coast may have been a decoy operation to draw attention away from a location where they had left the baby with a trusted individual. I'm playing devil's advocate a little, as I don't think I believe CM would leave her newborn baby with someone else for anything, but it would have been a smart move.

I'm probably clutching at straws. The fate of the baby is tragic, however you look at it.

JMO
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I think that’s very possible.
They left ( dumped ) the pushchair in Brick Lane, before going to Haringey and then , shortly afterwards, on to Newhaven.
I doubt baby is anywhere near Brighton.
 
Alyce said:
I think that’s very possible.
They left ( dumped ) the pushchair in Brick Lane, before going to Haringey and then , shortly afterwards, on to Newhaven.
I doubt baby is anywhere near Brighton.
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“Since vanishing, whenever they have been seen on CCTV their faces are covered and the baby is hidden from view, although taxi drivers used by the couple heard noises from a baby”

Quote Source here: New CCTV released of Constance Marten missing with partner and newborn baby
 
JuicyLucy said:
Did we ever establish who or what was at the Haringey address CM and MG went to before leaving London?

It occurs to me that the whole trip to the south coast may have been a decoy operation to draw attention away from a location where they had left the baby with a trusted individual. I'm playing devil's advocate a little, as I don't think I believe CM would leave her newborn baby with someone else for anything, but it would have been a smart move.

I'm probably clutching at straws. The fate of the baby is tragic, however you look at it.

JMO
Click to expand...
I thought the cab driver that took them to newhaven said they had the baby at the that point?

“Since vanishing, whenever they have been seen on CCTV their faces are covered and the baby is hidden from view, although taxi drivers used by the couple heard noises from a baby”

Quote Source here: New CCTV released of Constance Marten missing with partner and newborn baby
 
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