UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

[elliefant]

I thought the cab driver that took them to newhaven said they had the baby at the that point?

“Since vanishing, whenever they have been seen on CCTV their faces are covered and the baby is hidden from view, although taxi drivers used by the couple heard noises from a baby”

Quote Source here: New CCTV released of Constance Marten missing with partner and newborn baby

That is repeated from their earlier article at which point the couple had not been traced to the south coast, so I think the quote is likely about London taxi drivers

Police fear missing couple and baby sleeping in a tent in -3C

‘No child, especially a tiny, newborn baby, should be forced to endure such dangerous, potentially life-threatening, conditions’, say Met in urgent appeal

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

“Since vanishing, whenever they have been seen on CCTV their faces are covered and the baby is hidden from view, although taxi drivers used by the couple heard noises from a baby”

Quote Source here: New CCTV released of Constance Marten missing with partner and newborn baby

That could refer to one of the earlier taxi rides. I can't see anywhere in the article you have linked where it says specifically that the taxi driver who took them to Newhaven heard noises from a baby.

 

[porkypies]

Why 'arrested'?

Leaving a burning car on a public road and not reporting the danger?

 

[Amaz0nia]

That could refer to one of the earlier taxi rides. I can't see anywhere in the article you have linked where it says specifically that the taxi driver who took them to Newhaven heard noises from a baby.

Im just trying to find the quote-annoying as i had it last week!, im local to the brighton area and i think it was from the argus local paper-ill have a look!

 

[CaptainNancy]

But the police will presumably have spoken to the Newhaven taxi driver by now and ascertained whether the baby was in the taxi with them.

They seem to have spoken with lots of taxi drivers: they know that the couple were declining taxis with cameras. Also that they paid cash. They might have known to look at CCTV in Newhaven because a driver said they were dropped off there.

 

[Amaz0nia]

That could refer to one of the earlier taxi rides. I can't see anywhere in the article you have linked where it says specifically that the taxi driver who took them to Newhaven heard noises from a baby.

this was the article in our local news-tho am unsure if they stopped in haringey en route while in the cab from east london. Article suggests they went there first before getting a cab to newhaven..the polica confirmed the baby was alive when they got into the cab so assume they all went to newhaven…

https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/new...r-new-born-baby-last-seen-in-newhaven-4007774
Detective Superintendent Lewis Basford said: “We have no evidence to suggest that they boarded a ferry in Newhaven, and we still strongly believe that they remain here in the UK – although they could be anywhere. Our enquiries also establish that the baby was alive and with them when they got the taxi to Newhaven.

 

[Lolabear]

I'm hoping that they've made provisions with someone to care for the baby but I fear it maybe deceased unfortunately. January was so so cold and living rough is no place for a baby to thrive

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Totally agree with the comments that are baffled by the critical reaction to police decisions here. Adults can do whatever they want and choose to do and make the dumbest decisions imaginable for their own lives. The baby did not sign up for chaos and a lack of any medical oversight and society has a responsibility to protect children, including — and especially — when their parents do not. I’ve seen comments along the lines of, “if CM wasn’t rich, this wouldn’t be a story.” Maybe the press would be slightly less interested but the police would still be interested in a baby in this living situation.

 

[Purplepixii]

I'm not far from Brighton and can honestly say the "sunny south coast" has gone awol the past month or so. It's been utterly freezing in the evenings/overnight and as an outside person even I've struggled to stay out for long. Many mornings have had a layer of frost too. The thought of a baby out in these conditions breaks my heart and I don't see it as survivable if I'm honest

 

[Alyce]

this was the article in our local news-tho am unsure if they stopped in haringey en route while in the cab from east london. Article suggests they went there first before getting a cab to newhaven..the polica confirmed the baby was alive when they got into the cab so assume they all went to newhaven…

https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/new...r-new-born-baby-last-seen-in-newhaven-4007774
Detective Superintendent Lewis Basford said: “We have no evidence to suggest that they boarded a ferry in Newhaven, and we still strongly believe that they remain here in the UK – although they could be anywhere. Our enquiries also establish that the baby was alive and with them when they got the taxi to Newhaven.

Good find Amazonia.

I was hoping baby might be safe and warm with someone in London - but seems not.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Similar thing with the Nicola Bulley case. The police usually have good reason to believe what they believe. I don't understand why some feel the need to ignore/go against everything the police say either.

I understand sometimes the police get it wrong and some officers are even negligent or harmful, but the vast majority are people trying to do their jobs, who want to solve crimes or suspected crimes or other incidents of concern, and most of their investigations are professional and follow the right lines. It’s become a “thing” now to just say the police have to be wrong on little evidence and when we don’t know what they know.

Nothing in the NB case or this case about the police’s assumptions as to the situation has yet been shown to be wrong.

 

[3point5]

I feel for Constance and Mark. They've spent £££ and taken such drastic measures just to prevent their baby being ripped away from its parents.

This is very dangerous language. The child wouldn't be 'ripped away from it's parents'. It would be taken into safe keeping away from harm.

The police clearly have good reason to believe the child is not safe with the mother and father, and given they've not been sighted with the child in weeks, they're probably right.

 

[DetectiveLawless]

This is very dangerous language. The child wouldn't be 'ripped away from it's parents'. It would be taken into safe keeping away from harm.

The police clearly have good reason to believe the child is not safe with the mother and father, and given they've not been sighted with the child in weeks, they're probably right.

Exactly, peoples perceptions these days are ludicrous. The baby should not have to endure and IMO cannot endure physically what is has done for possibly 54 days of its life. If it is dead, the point is completely proven and there are only 2 people responsible for that.

 

[Nikynoo]

No they didn't - there was a Daily Mail article two or three days ago saying they didn't know.

Looks like as soon as she was visibly pregnant they started moving around the country frequently to avoid SS finding out about the pregnancy.

Thanks. Would SS even have C on their radar? I could see that possibility if she still had contact with prior children or if she had a vulnerability that required regular contact with SS. If there had been contact with SS or other agencies, C must have slipped off their radar some time ago.

If the car hadn't caught fire, would anyone know that C had given birth?

 

[Amaz0nia]

Good find Amazonia.

I was hoping baby might be safe and warm with someone in London - but seems not.

I knew id read it somewhere! I think now that the baby is in east sussex somewhere hence the massive police search -in our local bbc news they are scouting a 10-15mile radius…not an easy task when the parents are not cooperating at the moment. Poor baby, and its been utterly bitter and freezing here the past few days

 

[Amaz0nia]

Good find Amazonia.

I was hoping baby might be safe and warm with someone in London - but seems not.

I just hope its safe & warm with some ‘means well do-gooder’ here & that they come forward today -maybe wishful thinking on my part…but i continue to be hopeful

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Exactly, peoples perceptions these days are ludicrous. The baby should not have to endure and IMO cannot endure physically what is has done for possibly 54 days of its life. If it is dead, the point is completely proven and there are only 2 people responsible for that.

Well, quite. We aren’t talking about decisions within the remit of reasonable parenting even if some of us don’t agree for example homeschooling which some insist on and some think causes issues — it is people living rough in winter with a newborn they’d failed to seek any medical care for whatsoever. Put aside the father’s serious criminal conviction and that stuff if you like, that situation in and of itself is extremely dangerous.

 

[Nikynoo]

there are live updates on the Mail if anyone is interested.

LIVE: Urgent hunt for baby as runaway mother and rapist lover arrested

MAILONLINE LIVEBLOG: Get all the latest updates on the urgent search for the missing newborn baby of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon in Brighton on February 28, 2023.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[rightsaidfred]

Thanks. Would SS even have C on their radar? I could see that possibility if she still had contact with prior children or if she had a vulnerability that required regular contact with SS. If there had been contact with SS or other agencies, C must have slipped off their radar some time ago.

If the car hadn't caught fire, would anyone know that C had given birth?

If CM had presented to a midwife then she would have been flagged up to SS due to the prior removal of her children. Hence, she didn't seem antenatal care.

I don't think anyone would have known she'd given birth if it weren't for the car fire to be honest. I think they were trying to go to Ireland though, and would have tried to settle there, where the perception is the authorities are more likely to keep children with parents.

If the other children have been adopted and she wasn't known to be pregnant then I see no reason for proactive SS monitoring.

I just hope its safe & warm with some ‘means well do-gooder’ here & that they come forward today -maybe wishful thinking on my part…but i continue to be hopeful

Here's a thought - what if they've given the baby to a woman who is desperate for a baby of her own but struggles with infertility or neonatal loss. The sort of woman who buys a reborn doll to cope. She's so desperate for a baby that she agrees they can visit whenever.

She could have presented the baby as her own to friends and family - cryptic pregnancy, miracle baby etc. Undoubtedly she would have bonded with the baby, and phoning the police to admit where the baby is would mean telling her entire social circle that she's spun a web of lies to them.

Wild speculation on my part, and to be honest I think the most likely scenario is the baby has died, but if someone was caring for the baby and didn't come forward it would be a possible scenario.

 

[Lolabear]

I feel for Constance and Mark. They've spent £££ and taken such drastic measures just to prevent their baby being ripped away from its parents.
When there is a police chase and the suspect is being driven to take desperate measures that could endanger themselves or others just to get away the police have a duty of care for the suspects well being too and must act accordingly. Its a shame they haven't shown that same duty of care throughout this case.
If they'd of come out and said 'if you guys come back now, we'll make sure you stay in the baby's life and do all we can to support you as a family' then maybe there would have been a much better outcome then a family being homeless on the run for months and now a missing baby.
Constance and Mark are responsible for their actions. Don't get me wrong. But the way this case has been handled has done that family, and especially that baby, no favours.
I'm still holding out hope that the baby is being looked after by whoever housed them while Mark and Constance went to the shop ect. But honestly this whole case is heartbreaking and a serious review into that way its been conducted is needed.

I don't feel for them at all. That baby and her other children didn't ask to be born into their reckless lifestyle. If she wants to live like that it's her prerogative but when innocent children are brought into it then the game changes. Contrary to popular belief ss don't just take children away for the fun of it, they obviously have major concerns and if their other children are also not in their care something is obviously very wrong. They have proved themselves to be completely unsuitable parents by doing what they've been doing for the last 54 days!