Recovered/Located UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn, left a broken down car on motorway, Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023

[sunnynz]

Mother of missing aristocrat writes emotional open letter

Virginie de Selliers pledged to stand by Constance Marten, 35, and her grandchild, telling her: 'You are not alone in this situation. We will support you in whatever way we can.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

The wording “ I know that you want to keep your precious new-born child at all costs.” Is basically saying that the authorities want to remove the child IMO. That and the fact they had built up reserves of cash before the birth implies that the baby was always going to be removed once born. So this isn’t a case of the cops suddenly trying to track them down because of the car fire or the fact baby was born in the car etc. They were always going to be trying to take the baby once born. There must be a reason for that. All of this is my interpretation of the situation based on this latest article

 

[jackal67]

The wording “ I know that you want to keep your precious new-born child at all costs.” Is basically saying that the authorities want to remove the child IMO. That and the fact they had built up reserves of cash before the birth implies that the baby was always going to be removed once born. So this isn’t a case of the cops suddenly trying to track them down because of the car fire or the fact baby was born in the car etc. They were always going to be trying to take the baby once born. There must be a reason for that. All of this is my interpretation of the situation based on this latest article

So sad

 

[QB2022]

Yes. My theory is that they knew baby was likely going to be removed so were saving. They then received confirmation from SS of this plan around 3 weeks before due date (usual time scale). They tried to get to Ireland but baby came and then the car fire etc. They've gone to Sussex to see if they can somehow get across.

It really worries me the baby hasn't been sighted in weeks

 

[Earthwindfire]

This is so sad. I know we can't speculate here but a lot can be read into certain phrases in that letter.

It sounds like the family are saying they will do all that they can to support CM and the baby and to make sure she can remain with her child. I just hope she makes contact.

 

[dotr]

https://www.birminghamworld.uk/news/constance-marten-birmingham-partner-mark-gordon-met-police-4016937

By Stephen Pitts Harry Leach 7 FEB 2023 rbbm.

''Constance's mum, Virginie de Selliers, has pledged to stand by her 35-year-old daughter and her grandchild. She has promised their family will support Constance in "whatever way we can".
In the letter, sent to the PA news agency by a representative for the family, Mrs de Selliers said: "I know you well enough; you are focused, intelligent, passionate and complex with so much to offer the world. So many of your friends have come forward to say such positive things about you, assuring us of their warmest love and support for you and your family.

“You have made choices in your personal adult life which have proven to be challenging, however I respect them, I know that you want to keep your precious new-born child at all costs. With all that you have gone through, this baby cannot be removed from you, but instead needs looking after in a kind and warm environment.
"I want to help you and my grandchild. You deserve the opportunity to build a new life, establish a stable family and enjoy the same freedoms that most of us have.

"Constance, I will do what I can to stand alongside you and my grandchild. You are not alone in this situation. We will support you in whatever way we can."

Mrs de Selliers added that she is "ready to do what it takes" for Constance to "recover from this awful experience and enjoy motherhood".

 

[wizardizzo76]

The wording “ I know that you want to keep your precious new-born child at all costs.” Is basically saying that the authorities want to remove the child IMO. That and the fact they had built up reserves of cash before the birth implies that the baby was always going to be removed once born. So this isn’t a case of the cops suddenly trying to track them down because of the car fire or the fact baby was born in the car etc. They were always going to be trying to take the baby once born. There must be a reason for that. All of this is my interpretation of the situation based on this latest article

It's about a month later imo

 

[Amaz0nia]

Reading between the lines, i dont think CM’s mothers letter offering help etc extends to include MG somehow. Theres no mention or appeal to him to come forward, or to try and persuade CM to stop running and to get in contact. Very sad indeed, as the longer this cat & mouse situation goes on, the more hoops they will have to jump through (if they are found) with SS to prove that they are competent parents etc.

 

[ScalableHeights]

The wording “ I know that you want to keep your precious new-born child at all costs.” Is basically saying that the authorities want to remove the child IMO. That and the fact they had built up reserves of cash before the birth implies that the baby was always going to be removed once born. So this isn’t a case of the cops suddenly trying to track them down because of the car fire or the fact baby was born in the car etc. They were always going to be trying to take the baby once born. There must be a reason for that. All of this is my interpretation of the situation based on this latest article

Agreed. This reads very much like they knew (or feared) the baby would be taken away by Social Services so decided to run. I personally know of a family where social services decided they were unfit parents and put their children into foster homes and ultimately up for adoption (I know this because my friends adopted one of them). The parents fought like hell but lost their kids anyway. The photos of CM that circulated early on implied they have other children. My guess is that it's a very similar situation here, except that CM's money meant they had a chance to try and disappear - although if that is the case, it may not have worked out as they planned. JMO

 

[infinit]

The more I think about this the more my head hurts. I don't see how starting the fire deliberately aids them, it just draws attention to them vs just parking it on a street which could take some time before it's noticed as abandoned.

Unless the car broke down and then they've started the fire to try destroy evidence of the child? I just don't see it, with a bit of hiding and covering the back seats with something your random breakdown service is going to be non the wiser surely?

If it was mechanical or an accident. Why the mad dash to try ports? Is it the fact of the baby? Was there something else in the car they were worried about being found?

It just makes so little sense.

 

[kittythehare]

Social services have not been mentioned in any media or police reports.
We are not privy to CM's history or medical records.
This is as it should be.

There is at the present time no open access information regarding what her needs and wants are or whether or not they are currently being fulfilled wherever she is now.

I can speculate that she might need a home, an income, possibly a nanny to help with the baby and help her out in whatever ways she deems necessary or optimal to enable her to keep her baby safely and securely and to include her husband or partner.

I note from the letter that none of these were offered.
I see it as a missed opportunity.

Constance is 35, not a teenager. She may or may not have experience as a mother. if she has, surely the letter could have included an update on her other children? How they are? Whether their return can be facilitated and through what means?

These are practical things and I'm pretty sure that wherever she is and whoever she is with and wherever they are that it is the practicalities of getting by that are her priorities right now.

None of these were addressed.
They could have been.
They were not.
It feels empty and meaningless if not cruel.

Above is my own opinion.

 

[Bibno]

The more I think about this the more my head hurts. I don't see how starting the fire deliberately aids them, it just draws attention to them vs just parking it on a street which could take some time before it's noticed as abandoned.

Unless the car broke down and then they've started the fire to try destroy evidence of the child? I just don't see it, with a bit of hiding and covering the back seats with something your random breakdown service is going to be non the wiser surely?

If it was mechanical or an accident. Why the mad dash to try ports? Is it the fact of the baby? Was there something else in the car they were worried about being found?

It just makes so little sense.

Fire was caused by mechanical failure.

 

[QB2022]

Social services have not been mentioned in any media or police reports.
We are not privy to CM's history or medical records.
This is as it should be.

There is at the present time no open access information regarding what her needs and wants are or whether or not they are currently being fulfilled wherever she is now.

I can speculate that she might need a home, an income, possibly a nanny to help with the baby and help her out in whatever ways she deems necessary or optimal to enable her to keep her baby safely and securely and to include her husband or partner.

I note from the letter that none of these were offered.
I see it as a missed opportunity.

Constance is 35, not a teenager. She may or may not have experience as a mother. if she has, surely the letter could have included an update on her other children? How they are? Whether their return can be facilitated and through what means?

These are practical things and I'm pretty sure that wherever she is and whoever she is with and wherever they are that it is the practicalities of getting by that are her priorities right now.

None of these were addressed.
They could have been.
They were not.
It feels empty and meaningless if not cruel.

Above is my own opinion.

They simply will not state SS on anything like this in the UK. It just is not how it works here. They will provide the absolute minimum possible info to the public as it is all deemed strictly private. Her other children if they've been removed as many of us suspect, will be protected and they will not be allowed to share information about them publically.

Anyone in the UK will know exactly what it means and how private information is kept to protect the children and it is clear there are a lot of underlying history here.


The letter gave her another route to contact, but they aren't going to start making promises etc through a public letter. If anything I think they are targeting the public to encourage them to report sightings. I doubt CM even has Internet access

 

[QB2022]

And contrary to belief, they have no interest in parents who live alternative lifestyles. They would not be putting this amount of resource into searching them without very good reason.

 

[Earthwindfire]

Social services have not been mentioned in any media or police reports.
We are not privy to CM's history or medical records.
This is as it should be.

There is at the present time no open access information regarding what her needs and wants are or whether or not they are currently being fulfilled wherever she is now.

I can speculate that she might need a home, an income, possibly a nanny to help with the baby and help her out in whatever ways she deems necessary or optimal to enable her to keep her baby safely and securely and to include her husband or partner.

I note from the letter that none of these were offered.
I see it as a missed opportunity.

Constance is 35, not a teenager. She may or may not have experience as a mother. if she has, surely the letter could have included an update on her other children? How they are? Whether their return can be facilitated and through what means?

These are practical things and I'm pretty sure that wherever she is and whoever she is with and wherever they are that it is the practicalities of getting by that are her priorities right now.

None of these were addressed.
They could have been.
They were not.
It feels empty and meaningless if not cruel.

Above is my own opinion.

Due to his past conviction it would be very unlikely that SS would not be involved from the birth of the child in the U.K.. In fact, I would go so far to say that if SS were not then something has gone wrong as it would just be expected that they would be in those circumstances.

 

[infinit]

Due to his past conviction it would be very unlikely that SS would not be involved from the birth of the child in the U.K.. In fact, I would go so far to say that if SS were not then something has gone wrong as it would just be expected that they would be in those circumstances.

I think that's the conundrum sadly, her mum nor anyone else can promise her anything. There is a process and this I doubt is helping their cause. Saying that, they really don't want to take babies off parents if they can help it.

JMO.

 

[Earthwindfire]

I think that's the conundrum sadly, her mum nor anyone else can promise her anything. There is a process and this I doubt is helping their cause. Saying that, they really don't want to take babies off parents if they can help it.

JMO.

I agree. I can see a scenario where her extended family agree to be guardians for the child and CM lives with them. Unfortunately running away now, for whatever reason, is not evidence that she will be able to keep her baby safe, which is what SS will be looking for.

 

[kittythehare]

They simply will not state SS on anything like this in the UK. It just is not how it works here. They will provide the absolute minimum possible info to the public as it is all deemed strictly private. Her other children if they've been removed as many of us suspect, will be protected and they will not be allowed to share information about them publically.

Anyone in the UK will know exactly what it means and how private information is kept to protect the children and it is clear there are a lot of underlying history here.


The letter gave her another route to contact, but they aren't going to start making promises etc through a public letter. If anything I think they are targeting the public to encourage them to report sightings. I doubt CM even has Internet access

I was referring to the letter from her mother.
Websleuths is International so links would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[dotr]

What are the Principles of Confidentiality in Childcare?

Confidentiality helps to avoid children and young people being exploited by others who may misuse that information.

cpdonline.co.uk

''Confidential personal data concerning children may include:

• Addresses, email addresses, telephone numbers.
• Medical history.
• Pictures.
• Grades.
• Educational needs.
• Family history.
• Social service records.
• Psychological reports.
• Sexual orientation.
• Gender identity.

Rules about confidentiality often refer to particular types of information, as some types of information must be disclosed and should never be promised to be kept secret, for example, information that threatens a life.''

 

[kittythehare]

Due to his past conviction it would be very unlikely that SS would not be involved from the birth of the child in the U.K.. In fact, I would go so far to say that if SS were not then something has gone wrong as it would just be expected that they would be in those circumstances.

He may well have discharged that debt for all we know, he's almost 50, the offences occurred when he was 14.
His record is clean since as far as we know.
If social services have engaged with them and there is no proof they have, just speculation, they may well have deemed him to be fit and capable and a good father.
We do not know that they have or if they have which of the parents was deemed otherwise.
I'm not about to cast further stones at them based upon speculation because I actually care about them.

 

[Earthwindfire]

He may well have discharged that debt for all we know, he's almost 50, the offences occurred when he was 14.
His record is clean since as far as we know.
If social services have engaged with them and there is no proof they have, just speculation, they may well have deemed him to be fit and capable and a good father.
We do not know that they have or if they have which of the parents was deemed otherwise.
I'm not about to cast further stones at them based upon speculation because I actually care about them.

It isn't speculation that for a crime of the nature he was convicted of, that U.K. social services would be interested if he was living with any children.

Edited to add that I believe crimes of that nature are never considered discharged or as we refer to them as here, 'spent', when in relation to children.