UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #19

Discussion in '2010's Missing' started by Greater Than, Nov 29, 2016.

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  1. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    Interesting to see that that majority of us think Corrie was put in the bin by another person, rather than climbing in himself for a sleep, 22 votes to 5 last time I looked.

    Does this mean 4 minute man and old lurky legs are still in the frame? What about anyone else?

    I'd really like to know what Corrie's family and friends think to the notion of him getting in the bin voluntarily. Had he done it before? Had it been talked about ever? Would he typically need more sleep having already had a nap? If someone suddenly said "oh he often slept rough after a night out, he once woke up in a skip" it would change things dramatically.
     


  2. Cherwell

    Cherwell Ice Cream

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    I would have thought it unlikely, but having seen hypothermia discussed, that might change things. I wouldn't have thought it was cold enough for that, but it seems that alcohol would play a part and a drunk person might go into a hypothermic state in a shorter time. Even though one might think that he would have started to sober up by that time, hypothermia would cloud his judgement.

    My guess is that he didn't intend to fall asleep in the doorway, only to sit down and finish his food, and then perhaps to phone his mates to get a lift home with them. But being drunk he dozed off and got cold. You would think it was still worth a try calling them when he woke up, but he may have been too confused by then.
     
  3. Cherwell

    Cherwell Ice Cream

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    Who are these people? I haven't followed every twist and turn of this case.
     
  4. Amonet

    Amonet Well-Known Member

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    Without reading the links on decomp, I can only refer back to the NZ article about the man discovered in the bale. In that case it was body parts and not an entire human. I believe this occurs inside the bin lorry and not afterwards. So any sorting process would not be looking for a 5'10" man in nice clean clothing. And if there wasn't a thorough manual, piece-by-piece check, then I suppose there is a possibility this could be missed.

    We still don't have confirmation that the load went direct from bin lorry to landfill. The media are presenting it that way, but they could be oversimplifying for the public who haven't been closely following the case, and most people are headline-skimmers anyway.

    Looking at the condition of the landfill with the police searchers going over it, it appears to be mostly fine detritus with plastic bags (which won't decompose). I 'think' they'll be looking for bones and they could be quite scattered and in some cases fragmented.

    I don't know how they're conducting the search. I would have imagined that any bone fragments would be picked up and bagged to go back for forensics to see if they are human. And then I would expect the potentially human bones would be checked to see if they fit together. I don't know if anyone's into palaeoanthropology but you know how you see Lucy's bones laid out? Then you know you've got a single human being and that it's male (from the pelvis is the easiest way to tell) and if the leg bones are present then it should be possible to estimate the height. Teeth usually preserve quite well so they could be compared to dental records and images of Corrie smiling (sorry for that one).

    All jmo.

    ETA they had to remove was it 800 tons of cover material? That mass will cause pressure on the landfill contents below it, and I would think this could cause further fragmentation of bones along lines that had partial breaks in them.

    ETA 2, I think there will be heat in those lower layers. Which, in my mind, increases the possibility they're looking for skeletal remains, and not what I think you're suggesting by referencing a non-oxygen atmosphere.
     
  5. Miss_French

    Miss_French Well-Known Member

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  6. MissJoshuaTree

    MissJoshuaTree New Member

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    I totally agree, the bin man must have physically moved the bin closer to the bin truck & surely you'd realise that it's very heavy for a cardboard waste bin??
     
  7. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure someone will fill you in more accurately, but basically a man was seen leaving (but not entering) the bin area approx 4 minutes after Corrie went in there, and there was also someone seen lurking in the shadows nearby for a few minutes after that, almost as if on lookout. We assume 4mm was ID'd as he was in the initial police appeal for people caught on CCTV, but I'm not sure lurky-legs was ever included in that appeal.

    There is a rehab accommodation above the bin area called F12. It was said that nobody had occupied it that night but Nicola found out that it was occasionally used unofficially, is this where 4mm came from? Could Corrie have had a wee (he surely would have needed one) and clambered into the bin within 4 minutes, enough time for 4mm to not notice a thing?

    As I said, there are members here who are way more au fait with this than I am, can anyone clarify things better for Cherwell please?
     
  8. Northern Light

    Northern Light Member

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  9. Justlookingme

    Justlookingme New Member

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    I still can't believe he would do that, I can believe some people would do that but IMO he was meeting somebody in the HS and im convinced there is a third party and he died wether intentional or accidental.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. Ironside

    Ironside Well-Known Member

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    The best way I can think of to check if someone is in a bin is using those breathing detectors used on lorries by border staff when checking for illegal immigrants. I would guess it would be incredibly expensive though.

    Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk
     
  11. Amonet

    Amonet Well-Known Member

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    As one of those who voted for 'got into the bin voluntarily', I would like to say a few things about that.

    Is 2 hours sleep enough for someone with all that drink and all that food? I can imagine that leading to a very heavy sleep which would be hard to disturb?

    Corrie at 23 years old and military fit, I think shouldn't have a problem hoisting himself into the bin. Homeless people can do it, I see no reason that Corrie couldn't.

    Corrie's been presented as a bit of an imp. And he's an imp with military training. I would think field training would teach people to look for resources that other people wouldn't consider a resource. So a large bin filled with cardboard might be seen as a resource for someone who wants a quiet place to sleep, more comfortable and warm than a shop doorway, and without passers-by noticing him sleeping in the street.

    Why? That's always going to be the question, isn't it? The rest of us don't have regrets that led to our death. Why didn't I do this instead of that and save myself a whole lot of trouble? Most of us have those moments. Why did someone drive home drunk, end up in a horrible accident instead of calling a taxi? That's just one example.

    Why didn't Corrie call a mate to take him home? Maybe in his drunken state it made more sense to wait in BSE for a few hours to sober up until he could drive his car home. Why not walk back to the car? We can't get into his head to know that.

    I think the police will be looking closely at anyone passing the horseshoe between the time Corrie went in there and the bin lorry, but I think for the moment the public face of the investigation is focusing on finding Corrie.

    I did think that Nicola might struggle with thinking Corrie climbed into the bin. She's been so focused on someone harming him/taking him etc, as have most people here, that it's difficult to do a 180 degree overnight. But in the BBC interview where she was visibly upset and saying about the 120k people on the FB page....it sounded like she was saying, "I didn't need to do this, I got them involved and caring because we all thought someone had hurt Corrie" and I wonder if the unspoken words were that she is accepting that there might not be anyone else involved. Have some of her interviews been talking more about "how was he missed" rather than "who put him in a bin?"

    For those who think Corrie came to harm at the hands of another person(s), previously we would have said that didn't happen in the horseshoe due to lack of forensics (plus the awkward psychology of not simply running away and leaving the victim out of the bin). But what can we think of forensics now? We've been told no trace in the bin, no trace in the bin lorry, and yet now we're being told that's exactly where Corrie (probably) was. So what faith can we have about what we've been "told" about these things?

    The other thing is that someone doesn't have to have a direct history of doing something in order to do it for the first time and it not have a happy ending. Darroch said Corrie would sleep anywhere if he needed to...the street, a bench, wherever. An imp with military-level improvisational skills..drunk and just eaten a very heavy meal....woke up from an unplanned nap to realise he was quite chilly and wasn't really sure what to do with himself while waiting to go back to the car? Did he then run into someone and end up in a fight, or did he choose an enclosed shelter with warm cardboard for a bed?

    That would be my reasoning for my vote. But I could easily be wrong.
     
  12. Aye

    Aye Former Member

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    "Nicola Urquhart, CorrieĀ’s mother, pleaded with police to search the landfill, but they maintained that, due to the weight of the rubbish, Corrie could not be there. She said that police told her they believed his phone may be there, but they could not justify the cost of searching the landfill for a phone."
    Again another mistake, given a missing person and tracking movements and communications it was imperative the mobile phone was located. I am not wishing to disrespect anyone here but bisexual activity is common amoungst soldiers posted away, SP learnt nothing from the case some guy in London repeatadly drugged young men and left them dead in a cemetry & it was a victims friend who put the puzzle together and was ignored and further deaths occured. Finding that mobile was imperative to the investigation
     
  13. Jennibee

    Jennibee New Member

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    It doesn't seem to me that someone who slept in a doorway for 2 hours would have any qualms about getting in a bin for a sleep.

    JMO


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  14. Hexenb

    Hexenb Member

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    Shire with this case I think anything is possible and it's not a far fetched thought I doubt if much will surprise me anymore!
     
  15. suzyjackson

    suzyjackson Well-Known Member

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    If we can believe any thing at all in this case we've been told that the bin driver on the night wasn't the usual driver so I don't think we can expect him to have an idea of what the bin normally contains.

    Maybe if it had been the regular driver we wouldn't be in this situation now

    JMO
     
  16. suzyjackson

    suzyjackson Well-Known Member

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    If you mean what are their names then we don't know, if you mean how do they feature in the case they are names given to two people that have been seen in CCTV footage or spoken about by the family that some people think might be involved in C's disappearance as they were in in the HS area around the same time as he was
     
  17. suzyjackson

    suzyjackson Well-Known Member

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  18. Hexenb

    Hexenb Member

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    Sitting here having a quiet ponder imagining scenarios about how C got to the landfill without detection, if he is in fact there. My first point is if the bin lorry is operated to lift a bin that is full of cardboard surely the bin man would have heard a body (C being a well built lad) dropping into the back I'm sure it would have been more noisier than cardboard given that it was the early hours of the morning and there would not be much other noise about, would the actual lifting part (don't know its proper name) not slightly struggle under the weight of a body I am sure a bin full of cardboard would still be no where near the weight of a human body? Maybe not ok then but, there is apparently no DNA in that bin either (also I'm struggling to believe that) then we have the thought of a crushing mechanism (sorry not a nice thought) crushing all the cardboard but, still we have no DNA in the bin lorry! Then did the bin go straight to the landfill is that a process that is open 24 hours to dump rubbish? we are told that there is no sign of him on other checks like before rubbish goes to the incinerator so how the hell was he totally missed. Does anyone know if the landfill does have organic material there just wondering if food is sent there as where I am from we have a special bin for recycling food. So many ifs and buts going around in my head something is just not adding up for me!
     
  19. Aye

    Aye Former Member

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    A MOD employee, there could be that people with training far outweighing the police were involoved, officially or unofficially. A 'meet' gone wrong - contact from online or someone met earlier in the evening. The mobile location was the only solid line of enquiry and it was dismissed.

    The HS could be the perfect place for anyone to hide out in wait, pre-planned or not - coerced contact or online contact. bin or not vehicle or not (known serviceman could be kidnapped given the rise on attacks on UK soil) the fact is if he was placed in a bin injured or dead or climbed in recovering his mobile even before the bin weight error was imperative then. If I start a text and run out of battery/fall asleep it is still there unsent when I recharge. The only solid lead of the facts and truth was the mobile & was ignored as 'costing too much'. Was this a order from 'further up' or sheer SP professional incompetence.

    C could have been drugged, maybe he was not just under the influence of booze as assumed and without a body that would not be traced.Date rape drugs for instance have a limited tracing time, the failure of SP to follow the only lead in the mobile and a investigating officer/s to not be able to count (why are they in public service?) when investigating the statements from Biffa/recycling/Landfill staff are below poor standards or instructed for either/both.
     
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