UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #19

[Aye]

Here in North Ayrshire a lot of the binmen wear ear phones for music so that on top of the rattle of the bin, diesel engine and watching out for traffic, well there is so much distraction and other noises.

Report that as a H&S breach in charge of dangerous machinery.

The fact noise reducing headphones are provided using such machinery by some councils in public places is questionable - it puts the pubic at risk more so over the operatives long term hearing - it is a known risk of the job and anyone reading this who sees bin lorry operatives wearing protective headphones should note the operator and raise a complaint through your MP, H&S is about risk management, the immediate risk to the public over moving heavy machinery a employees long term hearing is paramount, that's balance & that is correct H&S management .

 

[Blamhappy]

It certainly would have saved money if the Police had ascertained long before now that the weight was wrong. It would also have saved many months of devastation and grief for Corrie's family, who have desperately pleaded for the landfill to be searched, they pleaded with potential witnesses to be identified, all the help from SULSAR, the volunteers, donations, torment for people who have been named and shamed on social media and forums who are completely innocent, the private company brought in to the tune of £50k etc etc. Something doesn't add up - why has it just suddenly came to light that an error was made? The timing coincides with the landfill being searched, very convenient. The Police should have checked and double checked that the weight was correct. <modsnip>

I can't help but agree with you.

 

[Reallyodd]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...lice-confident-missing-raf-gunner-will-found/

About half way down this article there's a bit that says a bin lorry was seen on CCTV stationed near Brentgovel Street on the night C went missing. Is this made up or another bit of info we weren't aware of? Why would a bin lorry be stationed there, surely it would just drive in and out after emptying one bin in 4 minutes?

If this is true "[FONT=&quot]T[/FONT][FONT=&quot]he landfill search follows the discovery of CCTV footage this week, showing that a bin lorry was stationed near Brentgovel Street in the town around the same time that Mr McKeague was last seen." it is rather odd, following the bin lorry weight revelation. I know that near where I live, bin collection lorries are 'stationed' shortly before the end of an event, ready to empty all the bins as soon as it safe to do so when people are making their way home, so it may just be something like that ready to pick up the contents of waste bins.[/FONT]

 

[Deleted member 189081]

I can't help but agree with you.

I agree with on most things however unless one has changed the private company cost 13k not 50k

 

[Coach]

I totally agree, the bin man must have physically moved the bin closer to the bin truck & surely you'd realise that it's very heavy for a cardboard waste bin??

I don't think he would have had to move it very far as he would have reversed the lorry back as far as he could, the bin has wheels so it is quite moveable although it certainly would have been much heavier than normal at over 100kgs. The driver could have been quite new and perhaps did not realise how light a normal weight would be for the bin. The reversing alarm would have been switched off (not allowed to use it between 2330 and 0700) but if Corrie didn't hear the lorry reversing (could have been an electric vehicle I suppose) then it makes me wonder why he didn't wake up when the bin man was moving the bin to get it to the back of the lorry for lifting. How deep a sleep could he have been in as he wouldn't have been sleeping very long. It makes me wonder if he wasn't put in the bin, possibly by a tragic accident involving the lorry.

 

[Sark06]

In going to ask something and even before I type it sounds daft ... but if 4 minute man didn't see anything at all .... realistically how long would it take someone to look in a bin to select which was suitable to sleep in I.e clean, cardboard. Then lift the lid, climb in close the lid and not be seen ?? 4 minutes plus a few seconds for C to walk in HS plus few seconds for 4mm to exit .... doesn't seem a long time in my opinion !!

I cant understand how it could be done either, physically is it even possible to climb in and close the lid and would it, even under the influence, seem appealing? My other half remembers a friend going for a number 2 in a biffa bin years back by sitting on the edge of the bin (sorry too much info) and falling backwards, there were a few of them there and had to pull him out as he was wedged in. In the absence of foul play, which may or may not have happened, there cant be that many reasons to get into a bin voluntarily can there? However it happened its truly gut wrenching to imagine

 

[Aye]

We really don't know if he got in the bin voluntarily, though circumstances suggest that. Supposedly bin trunk drivers open the bins and look inside before collections, but I would think it doesn't happen like the companies want. Perhaps some procedure could be put in place, during cooler nights, to check for drunks. Maybe they just stop picking up in the middle of the night. Some of the people who have been found dead from bins, died of exposure before collection. I am hoping C was unconscious and never felt a thing if this was his fate.

Circumstances suggest nothing, he went off camera and that HS location is the only circumstances proved thus far.

 

[Aye]

Apparently it was a normal night out for C according to family. Nothing unusual except he went missing.

The mobile phone could have proved otherwise. Surely its not 'normal' to be removed from a licenced premisis for conduct, so imo it was not a 'normal' night out - there is no evidence to suggest C was ever removed from licenced premisis before, that could be drug use with drink or unknown consumption of drugs that led to 'unusual behaviour' C was removed for.

 

[cotswoldemmie]

I had no idea bins were collected at 4am either.

Thinking about checking the bins though I can't see a way for a driver to be able to carry out a rigourous bin check, the bins are quite tall, even if they were able to lift the lid and look inside they aren't going to be able to see anything other than the top of the waste so wouldn't necessarily be able to tell if anyone was underneath and had covered themselves to keep warm.

I can't think of a foolproof way to check


JMO

Perhaps this tragedy will highlight the need for money should be spent on remanufacturing the massive bins in a clear plastic.

 

[Coach]

I cant understand how it could be done either, physically is it even possible to climb in and close the lid and would it, even under the influence, seem appealing? My other half remembers a friend going for a number 2 in a biffa bin years back by sitting on the edge of the bin (sorry too much info) and falling backwards, there were a few of them there and had to pull him out as he was wedged in. In the absence of foul play, which may or may not have happened, there cant be that many reasons to get into a bin voluntarily can there? However it happened its truly gut wrenching to imagine

People getting in bins is far more common than you think. A quick search online and there have been a lot of cases, most of them happen after nights out when people are drunk, other instances are the homeless. A cardboard rececyling bin would be clean, dry and warm. If the bins were locked, the risk would massively reduce for tragedies like these would, drivers could have a one for all key to open them before emptying. If the bins were locked it would prevent the public from readily accessing them. I'm not convinced he did get in the bin voluntarily although the logical explanation would be that he did so to fill in a few hours.

 

[Coach]

Perhaps this tragedy will highlight the need for money should be spent on remanufacturing the massive bins in a clear plastic.

I think there was a previous I post on here that bin men are supposed to knock on the side of the bins and look inside but I am not sure if this is an unofficial rule or a mandatory one. I expect it also depends on the company and the policies, even when there are policies in place there is no guarantee the drivers are adhering to it. The driver could also have been listening to music/radio with earphones in.

 

[mrseeker]

Circumstances suggest nothing, he went off camera and that HS location is the only circumstances proved thus far.

he was drunk, he was cold, and he walked in the HS. his phone went with the lorry. <modsnip>

 

[Sark06]

Perhaps this tragedy will highlight the need for money should be spent on remanufacturing the massive bins in a clear plastic.

Or a sensor that triggers an alarm if items exceeding a certain weight are dropped in at one go

 

[CoverMeCagney]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...lice-confident-missing-raf-gunner-will-found/

About half way down this article there's a bit that says a bin lorry was seen on CCTV stationed near Brentgovel Street on the night C went missing. Is this made up or another bit of info we weren't aware of? Why would a bin lorry be stationed there, surely it would just drive in and out after emptying one bin in 4 minutes?

I can't find that bit?? Maybe it got edited out already.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

Legally you may be right however it is indeed Biffa by all accounts that is leading the awareness campaign into the problem of people being found in bins and in 2014 trying to make it best practice across the waste management sector for bins to be checked prior to loading.Therefore professionally I would imagine it is part of the drivers duty and in H&S policy that they check. JMO

https://www.biffa.co.uk/wp-content/...nk_CIWM_Biffa-Research-Report-Final_Feb14.pdf


http://resource.co/article/three-people-week-found-sleeping-biffa-bins-10919

Drivers are now instructed to check large bins used by commercial clients before they are collected.

Sorry Quoting myself here from earlier the links may help with what is and is not expected.

 

[Coach]

Even if Corrie did get in the bin voluntarily, it still doesn't answer why he was missed at the next process (assuming it went where it was supposed to). If the driver had noticed at the HS that he had accidentally been tipped in the lorry but it was too late to save him, surely the driver would have phoned straight away for help and to report it.

 

[cotswoldemmie]

I think there was a previous I post on here that bin men are supposed to knock on the side of the bins and look inside but I am not sure if this is an unofficial rule or a mandatory one. I expect it also depends on the company and the policies, even when there are policies in place there is no guarantee the drivers are adhering to it. The driver could also have been listening to music/radio with earphones in.

A large majority of humans will become complacent when doing something monotonous, consciously or not.
To a degree, it is also in human nature to find quicker, less drawn out ways of doing things thus cutting corners.
Clear bins would enable a visual check by not only bin men but by bin users.

 

[Cherwell]

The mobile phone could have proved otherwise. Surely its not 'normal' to be removed from a licenced premisis for conduct, so imo it was not a 'normal' night out - there is no evidence to suggest C was ever removed from licenced premisis before, that could be drug use with drink or unknown consumption of drugs that led to 'unusual behaviour' C was removed for.

There's no evidence to suggest he wasn't, either. From what I've read of that club, due to a history of fights they frequently ask people to leave because they are judged to have drunk enough. We've heard that he was already quite drunk when he arrived there.

 

[Miss_French]

My thought when I read this was the same. The two versions don't match and I wondered if there are issues between these two police officers at all. JMO.

Just seen an interview with Martin & Trish on Anglia News. As always, Martin praised Suffolk and Norfolk police, saying they wouldn't vexathis stage if they hadn't kept reviewing the information.

I've seen somewhere N has an FLO, but how much have they been used when N is an FLO herself? Surely a second set of eyes and ears is needed to take the stress off the family and make sure they understand the briefings they are given.

 

[tallmansix]

Perhaps this tragedy will highlight the need for money should be spent on remanufacturing the massive bins in a clear plastic.

It might be cheaper to have a dedicated sleeping bin that is clearly marked so that it doesn't get emptied. :thinking:

Personally I think it is a step too far to change bin policy over this tragedy if indeed C did get in the bin to sleep. I think making the public aware of the risk is enough, after that we are all responsible for our own actions and sadly C is the only person responsible for the outcome if indeed he did get in a bin for a sleep. We don't need a H&S policy to know the risks of sleeping in bins, it's easy to work out the possible consequences which is why I have never done that despite sleeping outdoors on many occasions after a night on the town.