UK - Five Bamber family members dead at White House Farm, Essex, 1986

JaneInOz

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I just reread that and maybe I am reading it wrong. When it says Jeremy and Sheila's mothers DNA, does that mean singular as in just their mother's blood or both Jeremy AND his mother's blood was found on the silencer?

She meant Jeremy and Sheilas - MOTHER - it was Her blood as in June Bambers

And remember Jeremy and Sheila are both adopted and both unrelated to each other as well
 

Indianagirl

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Also from the above link I gave it states




What you have quoted is not from any site but rather Gaia's interpretation of what she has read.

Okay! Makes you wonder how they can come up with so many different DNA profiles, then one, then none! One more question, what are the opinions on why Jeremy's father called him about his sister being crazy with a gun and not the police?
 

JaneInOz

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Okay! Makes you wonder how they can come up with so many different DNA profiles, then one, then none! One more question, what are the opinions on why Jeremy's father called him about his sister being crazy with a gun and not the police?

Whow knows, because she *might* get taken away and the dad was jut trying to protect her and if the brother came over he might be able to calm her down.
 

gaia227

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Hi IndianaGirl - I reread what I wrote and it was not clear. What I was saying (or trying to say) was the blood in the silencer belonged to Jeremey's mother and a unknown male donor. Sorry that was not more clear. I was being lazy by not looking up her name - which is June Bamber.
 

gaia227

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JaneInOz - I thought you might be interested in this one given the subject :)

In my original post I tried to include links that were objective so people could just get the facts without any bias but found that was hard to do. It seems like even the media sources are leaning towards Jeremy's innocence and I can't say I blame them.

Even if there is not enough evidence to prove his innocence I certainly think there has been enough new evidence recovered, evidence of the crime scene being tampered with to cast a shadow of a doubt and get this man a new trial. He has been in prison for 23 yrs.

I think it is a valid point IndianaGirl brought up - why would Nevil (father) call Jeremy and not the police. If a relative was in my house waving around a gun saying she was going to kill us I would call 911 immediately. We don't know what was happening when he called Jeremy - maybe she was just making threats like she had before, the gun had not been brought into the picture yet, etc and Nevil thought he and Jeremy could difuse the situation.

The situation with the silencer is a little baffling. What makes the most sense to me is that Sheila killed her parents and children with the silencer on and then took it off to shoot herself because she knew she couldn't do it with the silencer on........why does that seem so implausible to LE? IF it is her blood in the silencer - she just killed four people, if her father was cognizant enough of her behavior being dangers to call Jeremy then perhaps he had struggled with her and she was cut somehow and bleeding. I don't think I have even seen that theory mentioned. LE took the stance of there is no possible way her blood could be in that silencer. Well, it could if she was bleeding when she took it off to kill herself......

From what I have read Jeremy's fingerprints were found on the bible and the rifle but not until after his trial and at that point it isn't known if he touched those things since.

There are some interesting statements here about Sheila's body, the blood patterns, etc.
http://www.innocent.org.uk/cases/jeremybamber/index.html



http://www.forensic.gov.uk/html/media/case-studies/f-31.html ( this is from the forensic lab's website who testified on behalf of the prosecution and the defence during Bamber's appeal. It is rather confusing - they are basically stating it could have been Sheila's DNA but it might not have been)
 

Bobbisangel

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It's to bad that the dad didn't call LE instead of calling his son. LE might have gotten there before the whole family was slaughtered. It sounds to me like the sister just went totally off the deep end. She is the one who was talking about killing her sons. I wonder if the mom and dad didn't try to stop her and she shot them and then shot her little boys.

I don't understand some of the underhanded things that LE and the Pros do just to make sure they convict someone...anyone. Grisham has a book out...it's a true story...about corruption in the Pros office and LE. It is really an eye opener and just makes a person sick to read the length they went to to convict some innocent men...but they were determined to send the guys to prison for life. It is such an interesting book...couldn't put it down. His first true story.

If this man isn't guilty I hope he gets a new trial and is found innocent.
 

eddeva

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His sister Sheila was found clutching a rifle and had a bible closeby. She was a paranoid schiztophrenic who had not been taking her medicine. She had made comments before about getting the evil out of her mother and made comments about killing herself and her children. She had had violent outbursts before. Jeremy received a call from his father that night alleging his father said "Shelia has gone crazy, come quick." Jeremy called the police immediately and headed out to his families estate. A tactile force finally entered the home and found the bodies.
Originally they thought it was a murder suicide on the part of Sheila but through-out the investigation began to change their minds.

don't let this guy fool you. it would have been impossible for his sister to have killed herself b/c she was simply not tall enough to aim the rifle at herself and extend her reach to the trigger. the detective in charge of the inevstigation it couldn't do it either. bamber didn't think of that.
he's guilty as homemade sin.
 

Parmenides

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don't let this guy fool you. it would have been impossible for his sister to have killed herself b/c she was simply not tall enough to aim the rifle at herself and extend her reach to the trigger. the detective in charge of the inevstigation it couldn't do it either. bamber didn't think of that.
he's guilty as homemade sin.

Sorry, it is not as simple as that.
It would have been impossible only if the silencer were attached.
At trial, it was established that there was blood in the silencer belonging to Sheila. This implied Sheila was killed with the silencer attached. Therefore she could not have killed herself, because it was impossible for her to fire the rifle at herself with the silencer attached. (In fact, she wouldn't have been able to take the silencer off and put it in the cupboard, if she had just killed herself, so the issue of it being impossible for her to kill herself with the silencer attached doesn't really add anything.)
The evidence about Sheila's blood at trial was based on blood group analysis, not DNA testing. The forensic expert agreed that his results could also be explained by a combination of the parents' blood, but he dismissed that as unlikely.
The basis for the appeal in 2002 was that DNA technology had come along, and an analysis of the silencer showed there was definitely none of Sheila's DNA present. There were two DNA signals. The main one pointed to June Bamber (the mother) (3500 times more likely to come from her than from a random female). The other was very faint and pointed to an unknown male.
Now, if there was none of Sheila's DNA in the silencer, then it seemed she wasn't killed with the silencer in place. Therefore she could have used the rifle on herself.
However, the judges at the 2002 appeal decided that the absence of Sheila's DNA did not discredit the evidence of the expert who found probable evidence of Sheila's blood in the silencer at the original trial. The flake of blood the expert tested was destroyed by the police in 1996 (contrary to their procedures). The judges said that, even though there may have been none of Sheila's blood or DNA in the silencer in the new tests, maybe what was tested before did come from her.
I think the judge's argument in this respect is disingenuous and a piece of sophistry. If the blood deposit in the silencer was Sheila's and not a combination of June and Neville Bamber's, as testified by the original expert, it does not stand to reason that the original swabbing would have removed every last trace of Sheila's DNA but still left some of June Bamber's and an unknown male's. I mean come on. If Sheila's blood was in the silencer, there should be some of her DNA in there now, not that of two other people whose blood was supposedly not found.
 

gaia227

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Thanks Parmenides - I was going to respond to the post about it being impossible this morning but never got around to it.

Once they actually did the DNA testing on the silencer and established that it was not on the gun when Sheila was shot then that changed everything (or it should have) because she could have shot herself with the rifle without the silencer attached.

BTW - like the name - I am assuming it is after the philosopher who wrote The Way of Truth and The Way of Opinion.
 

Wudge

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Wow! I wonder if they have anything like the innocence project there? A group like that could surely find the 'evidence' to free this man, if it exists.

I'm beginning to wonder how many people are behind bars, convicted because of LE withholding exculpatory evidence. :(

JMHO
fran

It happens in thousands of cases all across the nation every week. Many prosecutors and D.A.s still see withholding exculpatory evidence as sport.
 

john.hughes8

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Oh--I remember reading about that a while ago--that's a wild story!
I didn't remember the part about his sister having mental problems, but I do remember the police seeing someone moving about in the house--after they had it surrounded, before they broke in to find everyone dead.

quote from john h = if there was someone else in the house then that contrdicts bambers murder/suicide theory as neville told him that sheila was going mad with agun and that bamber and 2 officers stated that it was an unidentified male. bambers testimony is unsafe. please use common sense. also the killings were a skilled execution and not some schizo nut going mad with a gun
 

john.hughes8

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The drug found in her system Halperidol along with Cannabis is NOT a good combo

http://www.herbs2000.com/medica/haloperidol.htm

the killings were a skilled execution and not someone who's shcizo going mad with a gun.dig alittle deeper and discover the true motives behind the killings. greed. bamber was an arrogant and narsisistic bully who had bragged many times that his family got in the way of his chosen lifestyle. comment from j.hughes
 

Parmenides

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the killings were a skilled execution and not someone who's shcizo going mad with a gun.dig alittle deeper and discover the true motives behind the killings. greed. bamber was an arrogant and narsisistic bully who had bragged many times that his family got in the way of his chosen lifestyle. comment from j.hughes

What evidence is there they were a 'skilled execution'?

You say 'Bamber was an arrogant and narcissistic bully who had bragged etc.' and greed was the motive. Well, yes, the prosecution painted him as black as they could at trial, and they hit on greed as the motive. But I think if you 'dig a little deeper' you will find there are counterarguments to these claims, which rely, at least in part, on the testimony of a possibly embittered ex-GF.

In any case, one can equally say the sister was a diagnosed schizophrenic who had previously threatened to kill her children. If that doesn't make her the murderer then neither does Bamber (allegedly) being an arrogant/narcissistic bully who said his family got in the way make him the murderer.

BTW, sorry to go ad hominem, but the fact you don't take care to use proper spelling, punctuation and grammar in your posts inevitably makes me wonder whether you take care with your research before developing your opinions. That may be unfair, but it's a reality.
 

gaia227

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What evidence is there they were a 'skilled execution'?


In any case, one can equally say the sister was a diagnosed schizophrenic who had previously threatened to kill her children. If that doesn't make her the murderer then neither does Bamber (allegedly) being an arrogant/narcissistic bully who said his family got in the way make him the murderer.

.

Respectfully snipped.

I also think that just because Sheila suffered from Paranoid Schitzophrenia does not mean that IF she was responsible for the murders that at the time they took place she was in some 'schitzo' frenzy - running around wildly wielding the gun. Just because someone is schitzophrenic does not mean they are incapable of planning and executing an attack....
 

fortytwo

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Respectfully snipped.

I also think that just because Sheila suffered from Paranoid Schitzophrenia does not mean that IF she was responsible for the murders that at the time they took place she was in some 'schitzo' frenzy - running around wildly wielding the gun. Just because someone is schitzophrenic does not mean they are incapable of planning and executing an attack....
I concur.

Recall Wendell Williamson in Chapel Hill, NC, 1995.
 

sindydee

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Wow! I wonder if they have anything like the innocence project there? A group like that could surely find the 'evidence' to free this man, if it exists.

I'm beginning to wonder how many people are behind bars, convicted because of LE withholding exculpatory evidence. :(

JMHO
fran


I live in the UK and we dont have anything like the innocence project here. There have been a couple of cases recently where people have been wrongly convicted and have recieved huge payouts because of this.

To be honest the justice system here is an absolute disgrace. People kill or abuse other people and can be out from anywhere to 3 months to 15 years. The child abusers / child murders through abuse are the worst, whenever you read about these cases and they have been to court the sentences are absolutely disgraceful. They can be out in a couple of years. Think the best one was a rapist that bought a lottery ticket on a "supervised" day out, due to good behaviour. Think he won about 14 million pounds. Then he was freed. See what I mean?
 
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