UK Fred Handford, 56, New Mills, Derbyshire, March 1976

Discussion in '1970's Missing' started by wfgodot, Jun 16, 2013.

  1. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    'Hypnosis revealed I killed the farmer who raped me,' Extraordinary claim of woman,
    64, who has been questioned by police about 'crime which took place 37 years ago'


    much more, with pictures, at Sunday Mail link above
     
  2. Loading...


  3. Steely Dan

    Steely Dan Former Member

    Messages:
    30,559
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
  4. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Could be. She has a book to sell. But she doesn't exactly strike me as an Arias case groupie. Nor did a significant amount of the UK public clamor for more.
     
  5. Herding Cats

    Herding Cats New Member

    Messages:
    7,966
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Steely, if she shot him on the grounds, blood would soak into the ground fairly rapidly. And since it was a farm, I would expect that she either removed the dirt with the body or simply dug the dirt up...on a farm, you expect to see overturned dirt and whatnot. It's not unusual at all.

    The man *is* missing...it very well may have gone down the way she claims.

    Best-
    Herding Cats
     
  6. Steely Dan

    Steely Dan Former Member

    Messages:
    30,559
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think she claims she shot him indoors.
     
  7. Cappuccino

    Cappuccino Active Member

    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    38
    She says she shot him in the kitchen, so that doesn't work at all.

    I don't believe a word of it. Maybe they'll turn up a body and I'll have to eat my words, but I generally disbelieve "memories" which are "recovered" under hypnosis. She's experiencing false memories IMO.
     
  8. Ausgirl

    Ausgirl Enough Is Enough!

    Messages:
    6,481
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is such a hard call. I have had PTSD and spontaneously recovered memories from childhood abuse - I know how those nightmares can wake you in the night, many years after an event, and seem so horribly real..

    I -do- think something went on on that farm. Whether the man killed himself and she found him, went in a fugue.. Or she killed him. I don't know, can't guess.

    But IMO the hypnosis has muddied the waters of her memories, and that's a bit sad. First, there's always the chance her memories are faulty, and then there's the people who dismiss the whole story once they hear 'recovered memory'.

    I was told I made all the abuse up, because I didn't remember it all until I was in my 30's.. by friends and doctors both. Thing is, it was only the very worst of the sexual and physical abuse that I'd blocked out. I hadn't 'suddenly recalled' all the other rapes and beatings, the attacks with weapons and other stuff - I could always remember that. It hurt to be told my experiences weren't "real" because of some kneejerk perception that all recovered memory is 'false memory syndrome' (a 'syndrome' highly promoted and supported by a lot of pedos, I might add..). I was pretty angry about that.

    So that's why I am more inclined to give this lady the benefit of the doubt. --Something-- very bad has happened to her. I just hope she finds peace.
     
  9. txsvicki

    txsvicki New Member

    Messages:
    14,189
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Does she claim hypnosis brought out the memory of rape and killing him or just the killing?
     
  10. Ausgirl

    Ausgirl Enough Is Enough!

    Messages:
    6,481
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    From what I can make out, she has four days of missing time when the farmer vanished all those years ago.. along with inexplicably muddy shoes when she woke from this fugue state (ie, this was highly abnormal behaviour, to truck mud into her bedroom) and later on, experienced PTSD-like nightmares concerning the farmer, which did not involve her shooting him (but clearly worried her).

    This led the woman to seek professional help, which involved hypnosis to recover those missing days, which is when she recalled the rapes and shooting.

    I don't have much doubt she was traumatised by -something- fairly significant at the time, and feels a deep level of guilt over it. That's why I can't come at insta-judgment that hypnosis = she made the whole thing up.

    But IMO it's risky to approach memory via hypnosis alone, and especially risky to label conclusions drawn after a single session with a single therapist (of unknown skill and qualification) as hard fact.
     
  11. Backwoods

    Backwoods New Member

    Messages:
    4,658
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The rapes (twice in one day, apparently) and the killing a few days later
     
  12. txsvicki

    txsvicki New Member

    Messages:
    14,189
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I wonder what sort of business partners they were, or if she gets his half of the land or something if he is declared dead.
     
  13. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

    Messages:
    19,248
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Sun says she's sold the farm. So I suppose it was hers to sell already.

    Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4970808/Hypnosis-showed-I-was-a-killer.html#ixzz2WUhO9NV8


    Did she have EMDR? Or hypnosis? Or both? They are not the same thing.

    I am confused by her story of how she found out that FH was missing.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-farmer-raped-37-years-ago.html#ixzz2WUigkgkW
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    This sounds like she woke up at her parents' home and supposedly doesn't remember anything but she knows that Fred is missing before going to the farm.

    Did the police examine the shotgun at the time? Did they examine the wheelbarrow? Did they examine any freshly dug graves at the farm? Does she remember where she buried him? Do people in traumatic fugue states who are going to develop amnesia about their experience methodically clean up blood, other evidence and hide bodies?

    It is very unfortunate that she is not able to point out where the remains are.

    This statement is a little odd to me as I don't think it's as simple as that to confess and get on with your life if you're convicted for murder. It doesn't sound like self defense if she really shot him in the back while he was making tea.

    IDK about this... It could be real repressed memories, or false memories, or she made it all up to sell a book, or she did really kill him and remembered it all along but is now ready to make a half-confession to ease her conscience but not all the way because she doesn't want to go to jail.
     
  14. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

    Messages:
    19,248
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    http://www.thestrangerinmylife.co.uk/
    There is a sample chapter available on the site and she says that the therapist's name is Dr Belinda Browne-Thomas.

    Can anyone find this therapist online? Any traces that she exists?
    I googled "Dr Belinda Browne-Thomas" and got about 700 hits, all from Janet Holt's book.

    http://authonomy.com/books/47210/the-stranger-in-my-life/read-book/?chapterid=453296#chapter

    Edit:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/131764286/The-Stranger-In-My-Life-An-Autobiography
    An author's note here says that she changed the names of most of the people and made some characters up for her book (well, she terms those people "amalgamations" but I think it equals made up). Maybe the good ole doctor's name has been changed too which is unfortunate as no one can check her credentials.

    It also says here that her best friend Mary got her to see a therapist but in this article
    http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/c...len-parker-in-real-life-drama-59067-33302449/
    it is said that the co-author of her autobiography, Helen Parker, got her to see a therapist.

    The co-author's note here http://authonomy.com/books/47210/the-stranger-in-my-life/read-book/?pg=4&chapterid=470359 says that Janet Holt was arrested for wasting police time in 2012. She also notes that it is too late to start any court proceedings in the case.
     
  15. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

    Messages:
    19,248
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    She was too traumatized to tell the police about the rape because she couldn't have coped having to relive it. I am glad to see that she is not too traumatized to write a book about it or give interviews to the tabloids though.

    http://authonomy.com/books/47210/the-stranger-in-my-life/read-book/?pg=1&chapterid=453335

    Pffft. Makes total sense.... Not.

    I call BS.
    Not sure if she killed him or not but I bet that large chunks of this book are totally fictional.
    Also note that apparently she decided to write an e-book before she decided to go to the police and confess.

    And why is she hoping that Dr Belinda's notes will be produced eventually? She is the client, she can ask the doctor to write a statement about her treatment and then give it to the police.

    In chapter 50... she's moping because she can't contact anyone since the police have her phone and laptop in their possession. Luckily she remembers that she wrote down some email addresses and can write emails to her friends... using her laptop :p .
    Maybe she bought a new one but if so this is not very well written.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

    Messages:
    19,248
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    In chapter 9 she says that the police originally found some disturbance in a mine shaft and concluded that Fred had thrown himself down there. Also confesses to stealing 50 000 pounds from her job and falsely implicating Fred's sister's granddaughter in the crime.

    In the following chapters she says he was worried about money, and says the police told her that a neighbor had said Fred was worried about money and had spoken about suicide.
    She decides to lie to the police about the missing days. Then she tells them that Fred fell off a horse 9 months previously and was a changed man after that, gloomier A couple of paragraphs later she is shocked at the police suggesting a suicide and says he was right as rain. She describes the police suggesting that they had an affair and a falling out and mentions a missing whisky bottle. She speaks of Fred in past tense in the police interviews soon after the disappearance. But then it is bound to be a largely fictional conversation anyway, no one can report things verbatim after three decades or more. Apparently they didn't have access to the police files.
    ...
     
  17. Ausgirl

    Ausgirl Enough Is Enough!

    Messages:
    6,481
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The farmer is, aside from anything Janet Holt claims, still 100% missing for all these years. And it's quite probable that he's dead.

    Assuming he hasn't just fallen down an old mine shaft, never to be found:

    If money was an issue for Janet, there's a motive for homicide.

    If he was insured and she was she was a major beneficiary - there's a motive for both homicide and covering up a suicide (most policies won't pay out in the case of suicide).

    It does seem the woman is great at lying through her teeth and is also somewhat 'unstable'. But it remains - the farmer is missing, body never recovered, and so -something- has happened to him.

    Janet's behaviour, even given that she is a bit odd and her story is all over the place, reeks of guilt. My question is - guilt over what, exactly? And why would she confess to a murder she didn't commit? Maybe she sees spending her life in prison preferable to where she is now..?
     
  18. Cappuccino

    Cappuccino Active Member

    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Maybe she really believes she did it. False memories - usually induced by bad therapy - are a real phenomenom, not just something promoted by paedophiles. I'd love to know the real name of her therapist, I'd bet good money you'd find a trail of wild stories from her patients.
     
  19. Steely Dan

    Steely Dan Former Member

    Messages:
    30,559
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I believe that you can bury bad thoughts of PTSD for what was done to you. I find it hard to believe in fognesia for murders. JMO

    Yeah, this whole thing smells.
     
  20. Ausgirl

    Ausgirl Enough Is Enough!

    Messages:
    6,481
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I didn't say false memory isn't real - I was saying that automatic assumptions that memories regained through hypnosis are likely to be false is something that bothers me, and I believe I also explained why.

    Yep, it's possible she really believes it. But she's also claiming she had reasons to suspect her own guilt prior to the sessions, so the seed of the idea didn't come from therapy alone.

    What I'm finding interesting (as I read through her book) is that Janet worked in a probate law office prior to Fred Hanford's disappearance. There's also a lot of stuff in her book regarding inheritance. I'll wait til I finish the whole thing to say much more on it, but my thoughts right now are - all these recovered memories came shortly after she sold the farm (I'm looking forward to the chapter where it explains how she got full ownership of the property) ... what if Janet is rather elaborately covering her ass, just in case the new owners dig up either Fred or some hard evidence that she killed him?

    If the police have actually charged her for being a nuisance over it, and the consensus is that she's a tad delusional - maybe she thinks she'll beat a lifetime in prison?

    I'm finding her narrative really quite strange, like it's leading the reader by the nose to several conclusions.. idk, just something's quite off about it.
     
  21. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I do think she believes she killed him, although she may also be mad as a hatter.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice