GUILTY UK - Fusilier Lee Rigby, 25, brutally murdered, Woolwich, 22 May 2013

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badhorsie said:
British police have armed response units, they don't routinely carry guns on the streets AFAIK
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Thanks for clearing it up, I didn't know.


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Sonya610 said:
From what I understand there are large sections of London (i.e. White Chapel) that are basically "no go" areas for indigenous Britians. They have allowed much of their small island to be taken over by folks that basically hate British culture and the British themselves and this is what happens as a result.

Listen to the killer in the video, he sure sounds like he was raised in London yet he refers to himself and "his land" as something that hates the UK and he vows to "never stop fighting it".
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A couple of weeks ago I spent the day in Whitechapel and Brick Lane, I did not feel at all threatened even though it was like being in Q8 again, halal butchers, mosques etc. Similar to when it as filled with Syagogues. People were friendly and great ethnic food to buy.I spent the whole day and did not feel threatened in any way
 
My goodness, poor Mr Rigby. He looks no older than my teenage son. Baby faced. :(

RIP. :rose:
 
badhorsie said:
A couple of weeks ago I spent the day in Whitechapel and Brick Lane, I did not feel at all threatened even though it was like being in Q8 again, halal butchers, mosques etc. Similar to when it as filled with Syagogues. People were friendly and great ethnic food to buy.I spent the whole day and did not feel threatened in any way
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Great to hear. I have read many articles about the problems but those are just articles.

Then again my hair stylist went on a tour of London a couple of years ago, she had never been outside of the country, the tour was comprised of local people through a university, the guide warned them about taking the train/subway system past certain points but a group of them went into White Chapel for a special Jack the Ripper Tour despite the warnings.

So they were touring White Chapel during the day when one of their male party members had some trash hit the back of his head. More trash followed (thrown from windows) and yelling followed and they quickly realized they needed to leave ASAP.

I am sure that was a completely random "one off" occurrence and it is just coincidence that it happened to someone I know personally, and when I mentioned White Chapel you happen to know that wonderfully diverse area etc.... Funny how you say you visit and "feel safe there"....instead of saying "What? I go there all the time, White Chapel it is a very nice area with a very low crime rate!"

People getting hit in the back of the head with trash, throwing trash at random folks walking down the street, verbal threats happen everywhere for no particular reason, right? Yuppers. On that note I am sure this sort of violent near beheading of a soldier on the street attack happens frequently for no particular reason too (even if the folks perpetrating the attack scream their reason out at video cameras).
 
I know nothing of their crime rate. I lived in LDN for many years and feel quite streetwise, I lived in Padding. Kilburn area. Loved it. But I did not want my children growing up in the city.
I have lived in Q8 after the Gulf war with much sabre rattling. I worked as a teacher in a British school where we protested against having a shelter in a ballet school, with mirrors everywhere, glass mirrors if you please. I spent about 12 hours in Spitalfields, Whitechapel and Brick Lane last month and not at one moment was I not made to feel welcome
 
Sonya610 said:
Great to hear. I have read many articles about the problems but those are just articles.

Then again my hair stylist went on a tour of London a couple of years ago, she had never been outside of the country, the tour was comprised of local people through a university, the guide warned them about taking the train/subway system past certain points but a group of them went into White Chapel for a special Jack the Ripper Tour despite the warnings.

So they were touring White Chapel during the day when one of their male party members had some trash hit the back of his head. More trash followed (thrown from windows) and yelling followed and they quickly realized they needed to leave ASAP.

I am sure that was a completely random "one off" occurrence and it is just coincidence that it happened to someone I know personally, and when I mentioned White Chapel you happen to know that wonderfully diverse area etc.... Funny how you say you visit and "feel safe there"....instead of saying "What? I go there all the time, White Chapel it is a very nice area with a very low crime rate!"

People getting hit in the back of the head with trash, throwing trash at random folks walking down the street, verbal threats happen everywhere for no particular reason, right? Yuppers. On that note I am sure this sort of violent near beheading of a soldier on the street attack happens frequently for no particular reason too (even if the folks perpetrating the attack scream their reason out at video cameras).
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Just to say, I am white, middle class, well spoken. I didn't ,at any point, feel threatened. I have lived in Muslim countries and know the deal. I applied this to this area to fit with the culture
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22664468

MI5 asked Woolwich murder suspect Michael Adebolajo if he wanted to work for them about six months before the killing, a childhood friend has said.

Abu Nusaybah told BBC Newsnight his friend - one of two men arrested after Drummer Lee Rigby's murder in south-east London on Wednesday - had rejected the approach from the security service.

The BBC could not obtain any confirmation from Whitehall sources.

Mr Nusaybah was arrested at the BBC after giving the interview.
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badhorsie said:
Just to say, I am white, middle class, well spoken. I didn't ,at any point, feel threatened. I have lived in Muslim countries and know the deal. I applied this to this area to fit with the culture
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Yes I am white and middle class too, I have vacationed in Iran for 2 weeks just to see what it was like. Grant it Iran isn't Q8...not nearly as liberal!

The Iranian Government officials and public were very very nice and respectful, and I knew while visiting their country I was a guest and I followed their rules and enjoyed their polite kindness and hospitality.

If I, for some reason, decided I wanted to LIVE THERE PERMANENTLY AND IMMIGRATE TO IRAN I would know full well that THEIR laws, THEIR cultural, THEIR standards of behavior were the most important things and if I wanted to ask them if I could live there I had to adopt their priorities and be grateful for the right to live in their country. If I asked and they allowed me to live there yet I showed a lack of respect, or worse criminal behavior, they would at best throw me out or more likely imprison or kill me (which would be fully justified).

Iran is for the Iranians. Their ancestors built those streets and created that culture, they have the right to that and they defend that and I respect them for it.
 
Sonya610 said:
Funny how you say you visit and "feel safe there"....instead of saying "What? I go there all the time, White Chapel it is a very nice area with a very low crime rate!"
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Whitechapel's never been a nice area with a very low crime rate. If you stop and think about it Sonya, you'll realise that's why there's a Jack the Ripper tour there in the first place.

Crime, poverty, drug and alcohol abuse, high unemployment, prostitution, all those things have been prevalent in that area for centuries, long before muslims were there.
 
I'll be honest, it annoys me when people bring up guns. We do not need guns in the UK. Incidents like this are very rare. How could a gun stop them running him over to start with anyway?
Guns would just bring more violence. I feel much safer knowing most people here aren't armed. Our murder rate(per capita) is tiny compared to the US.
 
Regarding the safety of London - I work all over the south east UK, including London and the East End, week in, week out. I can cover up to 15 different districts in London in a day, either driving or tube hopping and walking. I work late into the evening and exercise the same precautions wherever I go - think about where I park my car, have a look around before I get out, ensure my purse and phone (or wallet to those of you in the USA) is not on show. I can honestly say I have never experienced a negative encounter. My biggest concern is getting a parking ticket!

According to statistics, last year there were 550 murders in England and Wales which equates to 9.8 murders per million population. Only 39 or 7% of these used a gun.

There is a nicely laid out site here which details the murders in England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Arming our population would significantly change these statistics and ensure that no-one was safe from a stray bullet.

In the Woolwich case, the speed of the armed police arriving did not make any difference, although I accept it certainly could have if the perpetrators had gone on the rampage.

What I find very concerning is that Lee Rigby was not in his uniform, but wearing a Help for Heroes sweatshirt, showing he supports the charity that was founded to support British soldiers wounded while serving their country. ANYONE can wear one of these sweatshirts - they are freely available as fundraising items on the H4H website, so how did the extremists know who they were targeting?

There is a significant threat of terrorism in this country. Thankfully, the 7/7 bombings in 2005 were the last to take place and I think I am right in saying that this is the first that has been perpetrated since then, although there may have been smaller incidents. It's clear that the counter terrorism police have been hard at work, but obviously they cannot counter every planned attack.

Foiled terrorism attacks
 
Good post, Amber.

As for how they knew Lee was a soldier, I assumed they followed him out from the army base nearby.
The counter terrorism unit here do do a great job. You can't stop every single plan forever so obviously there will be the odd one that slips the net.
 
Sarahlou said:
Good post, Amber.

As for how they knew Lee was a soldier, I assumed they followed him out from the army base nearby.
The counter terrorism unit here do do a great job. You can't stop every single plan forever so obviously there will be the odd one that slips the net.
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That makes a lot of sense.

I also work on army bases when I am asked to - just last month I was merchandising a campaign in the mess at Brompton Barracks in Gillingham and made several visits in and out. I didn't even consider a terrorist attack.
 
Sarahlou said:
I'll be honest, it annoys me when people bring up guns. We do not need guns in the UK. Incidents like this are very rare. How could a gun stop them running him over to start with anyway?
Guns would just bring more violence. I feel much safer knowing most people here aren't armed. Our murder rate(per capita) is tiny compared to the US.
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Hear hear. No need to feel 'sorry' for us Brits, because we 'can't defend ourselves in our own homes' as an earlier post to this thread put it.

The gun debate just doesn't cross the Atlantic. Different countries, different cultures entirely. It just doesn't figure on our radar at all. We've never had them and we don't miss them, but in America it's totally different and I know the gun debate inspires great argument and passion amongst Americans.

However, with the greatest respect, it's best to leave the Brits out of the argument altogether. It's something you can't compare or debate - what goes on in the US is none of our business, and vice versa.
 
Sarahlou said:
I'll be honest, it annoys me when people bring up guns. We do not need guns in the UK. Incidents like this are very rare. How could a gun stop them running him over to start with anyway?
Guns would just bring more violence. I feel much safer knowing most people here aren't armed. Our murder rate(per capita) is tiny compared to the US.
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Me too. I would feel a lot less safe if we had an "armed population" and I say that as someone who has used guns. I most definitely wouldn't want the EDL and their like having easy access to guns.

If I were to change anything, it would be the way the media deal with it. Calling those two terrorists glamorises them. They're murderers and nothing else. Disaffected people who have latched onto an ideology to give themselves some sense of identity; extremists come in all shades, it's not just muslims. Putting them on the front pages and giving them a "cause" makes them more than they are.
 
I agree. That guy made the front page of every single newspaper in Britain the day after that attack, complete with quotes from his "statement". That's just going to encourage others to copy him, IMO it would have been better if the front pages had all carried pictures of the young man who was murdered.
 
Cappuccino said:
I agree. That guy made the front page of every single newspaper in Britain the day after that attack, complete with quotes from his "statement". That's just going to encourage others to copy him, IMO it would have been better if the front pages had all carried pictures of the young man who was murdered.
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Well, he hadn't been named at that point so they couldn't do that, but maybe the women who went to aid him.. or better still, not put it on the front page or headlines at all. Not to belittle the victim in any way, but if you treat it as a straight out murder, it's not national news.

Publicising it as they have just incites the ignorant - it's been sad today seeing ordinary hardworking people say they feel anxious because the colour of their skin now makes them a target for "revenge" from far right extremists. I'm sick of seeing Facebook posts demanding that immigrants go home - these men were born in Britain, they're British, they ARE home. The 7 July 2005 bombers were British.

Sometimes I think the real terrorists are the media....
 
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