UK UK - Gareth Williams, 31, Pimlico, London, 16 Aug 2010

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by wfgodot, Nov 20, 2010.

  1. fruity

    fruity Well-Known Member

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    I've always believed he was murdered, and that the gay, cross dressing, bondage etc stuff was all made up to deflect attention away from the story at hand. It would have been impossible for him to get into that bag in the dark with the shower screen shut and leave no trace of finger or foot prints in the tub (or on the lock, handles or Velcro that fastened the handles together).
     
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  2. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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  3. beezwax404

    beezwax404 New Member

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    Yeah he was obviously murdered by people who know how to not get caught ie; intelligence operatives...he did something that made him a liability
     
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  4. cmarieclark

    cmarieclark New Member

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    Just my take...

    So much of this case is elusive, bizarre, odd and yet so very black and white. We see everything but the obvious which is the reality that no one really knew Gareth Williams, not even his own family it would seem. One young man who knew him as a young boy described him as being naive, but goes on to say he didn't really know GW.

    Who was this man? What do we know about him? Absolutely know, not what's been in the news. We know for certain who he worked for, was missing for 7 days before MI6 reported him missing. We know he was one of the best hackers in the world who just so happened to be employed by his government. He wasn't happy working with MI6, he wanted to move back to the countryside. He had no close friends, lovers, male or female, if he had they'd have already come forward for that 5 seconds of fame. We know he was found in a duffel bag, naked but not bound and that it was locked from the outside. We know that his apartment was locked and the heat was turned up excessively high so as to aid decomposition.

    After all of that what we know gets spun off into a million different directions including some pretty bizarre ones. The story his former landlady told about him tying himself up was pretty predictable given that she just basically regurgitated some news story but embellished a bit having to play the part of the rescuing party. But by her attempting such a poorly drawn out story, she unwittingly gave a small measure of insight about GW. No it's not sexual, it's that she may have viewed him as weak, innocent, naive or just simply careless.

    Let's be honest, no government wants to admit they employ sexual deviants, traitors, liars, abusers and killers. The fact is that they do. That leaves us with one of three choices:

    1. GW's death was accidental, resulting from a bizarre sexual encounter, either alone or with guests. Possible but not likely because at the beginning of the case his former landlady who adored him, before she hopped on the 5 minutes of fame train stated that he never partied, had guests over, never kept odd hours.

    2. GW found intelligence that he could sell. A little more likely, but it's doubtful given the fact that he seemed to find it difficult to make friends, in order to sell intelligence one would need to form some type of trusting relationship with his buyer.

    3. GW was assigned to gather intelligence on a fellow spy who might have been involved in something he shouldn't have been or a fellow co-worker at MI6 ratted him out to another agency. The last time I checked, spies do spy on each other, they kill each other sometimes over very little. So yes I believe it was an inside job. But by whom and exactly how inside only MI6 knows. More often than not these agencies have several layers, more than we the public are privy to, more than agents are even aware of.
     
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  5. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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  6. Brainy

    Brainy Well-Known Member

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    Interesting case... Just a very sad story. I have read so much about Gareth and believe that he was murdered. There is just no way he killed himself. The way that he way killed... It almost had a personal feel to it. Someone locked him in that box to make a point.

    he was an MI6 agent. Even though the person behind this may be known to authorities, they may not be willing to publicize the case for security reasons.
     
  7. snowleopard

    snowleopard Well-Known Member

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    This a pretty neutral summary of the case.....[video=youtube;eYQVwQieR5M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYQVwQieR5M[/video]
     
  8. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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  9. beforethegladness

    beforethegladness Well-Known Member

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  10. MsMiniSleuth

    MsMiniSleuth Well-Known Member

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  11. MsMiniSleuth

    MsMiniSleuth Well-Known Member

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  12. MsMiniSleuth

    MsMiniSleuth Well-Known Member

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    Why was his phone wiped back to factory settings?

    Whose were the partial DNA found on bag and towel?

    Why was the heating up full in August?

    Obviously he had a secretive private life and that is where the clue lies I think. A third party involved in sex games which he was willing to but went wrong?
     
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  13. MsMiniSleuth

    MsMiniSleuth Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, but if a third party had so meticulously cleaned everything, surely they would have been careful not to leave DNA on the bag, as has been discovered? And if that was belonging to someone else long before his death, if they had cleaned that then there would not be anyone's DNA, right?

    Where do you propose he was, given you say he was murdered elsewhere? And not picked up on CCTV? And his last web browsing at 1.03am on computer would surely have been traced to where sited at time?
     
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  14. MsMiniSleuth

    MsMiniSleuth Well-Known Member

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    They have partial DNA on padlock and zip of bag of unidentified other.
     
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  15. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    MsMiniSleuth,
    DNA could have arrived from any random source including airborne debri as the investigating officers checked the crime-scene.

    DNA without a name is simply crime-scene artifact, excepting semen, bloodstains, etc

    He could have been anywhere, patently someone else put him in the bag, that's the staging, not really needed if its a house breaking with violence.

    The motive is usually silence, an outlier might be he had bitcoin stored on a laptop, or diamonds in bag, who knows.

    My take is it was an intelligence service hit job.

    .
     
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  16. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Feb 8 2021
    Leads revealed in death of GCHQ spy as suspects still not found
    ''Now, the police chief who helped run the investigation has told how DNA belonging to two people has never been identified and he suspects the death is linked to Mr Williams' private life, which included an interest in bondage.

    Hamish Campbell, the now-retired detective chief superintendent who oversaw the probe, along with the barrister for Mr Williams' family, thinks it is time for a new review of the case.''

    ''Mr Campbell, in charge of the homicide and serious crime command at that time, said this led him to rule out a hit by the Russian state.

    He said: "I felt it was improbable his body fluid could be present in a violent, non-consenting scenario. Considering Gareth's tidiness and cleanliness, we surmised the semen was from the day of his entry into the bag.

    "But was he alone or not? It would be difficult to imagine him having intimacy with a Russian hitman or a female spy."

    ''Inside his flat, police found wigs, make-up, 26 pairs of high-end women's shoes and £20,000 worth of women's designer clothing which was stored inside six boxes in a spare bedroom.

    Mr Campbell, now assistant commissioner for the Independent Commission of Investigations in Jamaica, suspects the women's items were linked to fashion design courses the spy had secretly taken, and he either wore them or was planning to wear them.''
     
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  17. MsMiniSleuth

    MsMiniSleuth Well-Known Member

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    New DNA toolkit leads Yard to review spy-in-the-bag case


    Sunday Times Feb 21 2021
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. MsMiniSleuth

    MsMiniSleuth Well-Known Member

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    Putting pic right way up if difficult to read above!
     

    Attached Files:

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  19. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    22 FEB 2021
    Detectives to assess potential new leads in MI6 'spy in the bag' case
    ''Detectives will "assess" potential new leads in the death of MI6 spy Gareth Williams after "new information" about forensic advances emerged.
    The Metropolitan Police has said they will look into whether any new investigative opportunities existed in the "spy in the bag" case.''
    ''However, due to technical advances, a leading scientist, Professor Angela Gallop, who founded the laboratory that carried out the testing in the case, said that 2mm of hair could now be of use to investigators.

    She told the Sunday Times: "Nowadays you can get a result out of a tiny length of hair, down to just 2mm.''
    “This type of test can’t distinguish your DNA from that of your mother or any maternal relatives.
    "However, it could be useful if you wanted to compare somebody specific with the result.”

    Feb 14 2021
    Single hair could solve Gareth Williams ‘spy-in-bag’ case with new DNA technique | News | The Sunday Times
    [​IMG]
    CCTV of Gareth Williams at Holland Park Tube station, London. Days later his body was found padlocked into a bag in his bath
    PRESS ASSOCIATIO
    ''A single hair found on the hand of the MI6 spy Gareth Williams could solve the mystery of his death.

    Williams was found naked inside a red holdall in the bathtub of his flat in Pimlico, central London, in 2010, prompting a murder inquiry.

    Forensic scientists at the time said that the hair belonged to a person other than Williams, but could not extract a DNA profile. Now a leading forensic scientist, Professor Angela Gallop, who founded the laboratory that carried out the testing in the “spy in the bag” case, says technical advances mean that a profile can be extracted from two millimetres of hair.''
     
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  20. 3ds&p

    3ds&p Former Member

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    Heating on full in summer......mmm - can’t think of any innocent reasoning for this....
     
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