UK - Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murder/attempted murder of a number of babies, 2018

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by sleuth777, Jul 3, 2018.

  1. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    439
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Everything about this case is just too weird for words, to be honest. I don't know whether we'll see some absolutely earth shattering stuff coming up at trial or whether it will just be loads of very circumstantial stuff such as her rotas coinciding with other events. With other significant cases you usually get some sort of feel for how things might go but I just can't read this one.

    Who knows, but perhaps the reason for the shift in venue might be that all the reports about people saying that she's the most wonderful nurse to grace the face of planet might make it difficult to find a jury to convict her in Chester, rather than the other way around? Admittedly, that's a bit of a stretch but nothing would surprise me with this one and I really don't see hoards of people vilifying her. There is the odd nutter on Twitter and FB but she's no Peter Sutcliffe as regards haters.
     
    altojack, Kasmeer, Jules2021 and 3 others like this.


  2. Kemug

    Kemug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    2,189
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Jules2021, I think you made an excellent point with the idea that perhaps LL is such a perfectionist that she thinks she may have been negligent in some way, and thus caused the babies' deaths. She may also not be the most confident of people. This is a theory I can accept.
     
  3. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    439
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I can see some merit in this, to be honest. Again, it's just going from her photos and what people who know her have said about her but I can accept that she probably isn't the most confident person in the world and I very much doubt that she's particularly good at asserting herself. I can't imagine that she handles police interviews as a murder suspect too well so I doubt that the time it's taken to charge her is due to her confounding the police with loads of what the Americans term "plausible deniability". She certainly doesn't come across as a confident master criminal in anything I've seen about her.

    I'm fascinated by her character. I consider myself to be a fairly good judge of people and I can usually spot people with negative character traits fairly early on but I just don't see her as the nasty, conceited type. In fairness, all I can base this on is her photos and what others have said about her, so I may be completely wrong. I'd love to see some video of her surface.
     
  4. Jules2021

    Jules2021 Member

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Thanks it's the only thing I can come up with really! Attention seeker well it's possible but I wouldn't have thought she was-although she was the face of that campaign so maybe she is more of an attention seeker in reality. All I know is you have to be a special type of person to go into that job and it's one I certainly couldn't do as I would be far too oversensitive and affected by any deaths although I suppose it's something you do sadly get "used" to overtime. Of course on that unit there were more deaths than any nurse was supposed to see over a certain time period and I'm sure all the nurses were devastated by each one.

    I agree Marantz I have an idea of her character based on her photos and what people who know her have said-like I said in a previous post "girl next door" springs to mind. Honestly the last person on the planet I would think would be guilty of something like this. With solid evidence for her guilt and some kind of motive then I'd begin to believe it after the shock wore off(!) but at this point not knowing what the police have in any way then all I can think of is ways in which she may have got caught up in this but it not be murder. Perhaps I should have more faith in the police though after all they must've been shocked to start investigating her in the first place-I know they go by evidence and not what someone looks like (which is all we have to go on really) but I would think she's the last person they'd expect to be investigating for this too and yet here we are finally on a murder charge.
     
  5. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    439
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I would very much doubt that she's an attention seeker, to be honest. Of course we don't know her personally but from looking at her pictures and going from what people have said I would doubt that she is. If the press have been through her Facebook, which clearly they have, I'd have expected it to be full of pouting
    selfies and "me, me" type posts yet none of them are. Can you imagine the FB pictures we'd see were Beverley Allitt being investigated today?

    My opinion is that she was probably chosen for the fund raising campaign rather than putting herself forward for it. She's the perfect person for it; young, probably the prettiest on the unit, recently qualified and clearly dedicated. I'd have chosen her.
     
    Marg from Oz, janeh, altojack and 2 others like this.
  6. altojack

    altojack Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    983
    Likes Received:
    4,535
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I just don't see this at all. I've read from beginning and at the moment imagine either a setup or a massive mistake. I've only seen photos and heard friends etc , just like you all have. I'll wait until we hear more info before I move from my spot.
     
  7. passingby

    passingby New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    3
    They deny it's got anything to do with farming clicks. Must be another, like me, sitting on the innocence side of the fence as a pure emotional reaction?

    Yes we will just have to wait for the evidence to start becoming available.

    <modsnip>
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2021
    Marg from Oz and altojack like this.
  8. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    439
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Is this that strange website you're referring to?

    I don't think it's anything other than a money making opportunity, to be honest. It isn't even run from the UK. I don't know where the monetisation angle is but I'm not "computery" so I probably wouldn't see it.

    Everything about this case is just bizarre, to be quite honest.
     
  9. passingby

    passingby New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Yes. There's a whole bunch of ways irrelevant to the discussion at hand, that one could use to argue it's real purpose is such. But then again there's other motivations that might fit.. No idea. They do invite the reader to "reach out", if anyone was interested in looking any further into what it is. I'm just waiting for further development on the case, don't know what to think tbh.
     
    Marg from Oz likes this.
  10. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    439
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Documentary starting in a few minutes on Sky Crime about Beverley Allitt.

    As to the website; I "reached out" (hate that phrase) to it a while back and heard nothing back after what makes you think I'm American, so they aren't too forthcoming with info.
     
  11. vertbean

    vertbean New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    3
    New member here, but this case both fascinates and horrifies me. She definitely doesn't look like someone who has a secret dark side, but I'm keeping an open mind and will be interested to see what comes out in the trial.

    One thing that does strike me is how many people saying everyone loves her, has only nice things to say etc. I do imagine that anyone who doesn't view her that way (had suspicion etc) is most likely not a allowed to speak out publically for legal reasons, and they'll possibly be witnesses in the trial. Just because we haven't heard anything bad about her, doesn't mean that there's nothing to tell.

    Whether innocent or guilty though, this whole thing is a tragedy either way and so strange.
     
    Veralover, Gibbo214, Eloise and 7 others like this.
  12. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    439
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Nice to see you, I'm relatively new here myself.

    I understand what you're saying on the points about everything we've heard of her from others being only a positive opinion of her. It could indeed be the case that no one who has doubts about her has spoken up yet. I think that that is unlikely though, my reasoning is thus; the British tabloid press are absolutely shameless and are rapacious at pursuing dirt and unsavoury things about people. They will print anything even remotely true if they think it will sell papers or get clicks - and sometimes stuff which is blatantly untrue, too. LL was first arrested in mid 2018 so the press has had two and a half years to dig up any dirt on her that they could possibly dig up. They clearly went though her Facebook and probably the accounts of her friends too. I dare say they did that with loads of other social media accounts which may be vaguely linked to her.

    Yes, there are matters relating to trials and courts which they would avoid printing for fear of contempt but the press are very good at "alluding to" certain situations. If someone who knew her, or especially multiple people, had given them accounts of her being abusive, manipulative or very strongly unhinged or deviant then you can bet that those sentiments would have wormed their way into the coverage in some form or other. Even if we accept that the press were being unusually well behaved in this matter, perhaps they had been asked not to print things from the outset (and, say what you will about them, they usually do adhere to this if it benefits them in the long run), then why are there no negative comments about her anywhere else? There is no legal restriction on a news outlet publishing the words of someone who said she was weird and that everyone avoided her just as there isn't on a restriction on reporting that someone said she's the wonderful person they'd ever met.

    Away from the mainstream media channels the story is the same; I must have done dozens of searches on this case and I haven't come across a single person, anywhere, ever who has given a bad account of her. I've read various message boards, even the really seedy ones, and there is simply nothing negative about her anywhere from anyone who is qualified to comment. Not from anyone who knows her, works or has worked with her, or knows of her through other people. If there was the slightest doubt or speculation as to her character then you would certainly expect to find someone saying such online. There isn't a single, I know her and she's deeply weird or, everyone at school kept away from her, type comment anywhere that I can find. If she had any serious character flaws or put people on their guard I think it's inconceivable that no one has posted something to that effect on some dodgy message board somewhere. If the internet as it exists today was around when Beverley Allitt was awaiting trial I don't think that anyone would deny that it would be very easy to find negative comments on her online as she had a well known history of being a manipulative, violent attention seeker.
     
    Kemug, Marg from Oz, Kasmeer and 3 others like this.
  13. Eloise

    Eloise Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    3,825
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The fact that media won't publish anything bad about her since her arrest would be because of sub judice rules, but I agree - I went looking for dirt on social media on various sites and forums and couldn't find anything. No people claiming to have gone to school with her and thought she was weird, no old neighbours or workmates saying she was dodgy, nothing. Nothing at all. Just photos from friends, as an adult, where she's socialising and just being a normal 20something, and comments saying she's the nicest girl, hard worker, studied hard. She's not fitting some weird loner weirdo stereotype at all.

    I've said it before, I really think she's either the most cunning and devious serial killer ever (highly unlikely, but not literally "that could NEVER happen" impossible) or this is a colossal error of judgment by both NHS and police. I think the latter is more likely, but I really want to know why and how it happened. If it's some awful coincidence that led Lucy to really appear to be guilty to LE even though she's not. Or that she's a scapegoat, deliberately thrown under the bus by the hospital and/or the NHS to deflect criticism and scrutiny. Either way it's terrible for her if she's innocent, and if she's a scapegoat then I hope whoever is responsible is held responsible.
     
    Kemug, altojack, Marg from Oz and 2 others like this.
  14. Gibbo214

    Gibbo214 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    7,971
    Trophy Points:
    93
    People only had good things to say about Chris Watts too and yet he murdered his whole family in a cruel manner and dumped his little girls in oil vats.
     
    abr, Kemug, Kittybunny and 3 others like this.
  15. Eloise

    Eloise Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    3,825
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's true. You're not wrong. But that was a family annihilation and I feel like that's different and would come from a different motivation and different mental place than killing multiple babies that you're not related to.
     
  16. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    439
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I'm not sure that that's true. I can't find anything online from people saying he was an amazing person who wouldn't hurt a fly bar one comment in the article linked to below. On the contrary, there are people saying that he was a serial adulterer and his wife's mother apparently contacted the police when she first went missing to say that she thought he was responsible. Having said that, we aren't comparing like for like situations. There was around two and a half years from when LL was first arrested to when she was charged and she was arrested three times during that period which brought about press coverage each time. That is more than ample opportunity for anyone who knew her to either talk to the press or to post stuff on any number of web forums if they thought she was in any way dangerous or had an unstable life or strange personality traits. Watts was arrested after days, had confessed two months later and was doing life within about a year.

    Were the same sort of timescales involved with CW, I strongly suspect that we would have heard a lot of negative stories coming out about him as he was clearly a fairly unpleasant person.

    https://www.nickiswift.com/282274/the-truth-about-chris-watts-double-life/
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
    Kemug, Marg from Oz and Eloise like this.
  17. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    439
    Trophy Points:
    63
    If she's guilty I think she's the most unusual serial killer in history. I can't think of any others similar.
     
  18. Sarahlou

    Sarahlou Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,414
    Likes Received:
    7,473
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Harold Shipman's colleagues said he was a good doctor and he was popular with his patients. You really can never tell.
     
    Marg from Oz, Kemug, vertbean and 7 others like this.
  19. dawnlouise81

    dawnlouise81 Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Yes that’s true, an excellent doctor by all accounts. The guy I work with says Lucy used to look after their cat when they went away, and she’s such a nice person... bet they’ll feel like crap if she’s found guilty.
     
  20. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    439
    Trophy Points:
    63
    True, you can't and someone's demeanour is rarely proof of anything. I think I'm a fairly good judge of character or, at least, I can generally spot people who have unhealthy character flaws. When the whole Shipman thing kicked off I distinctly remember getting the feeling that I didn't like him when he was interviewed on TV; that there was something "not right" about him.

    The issue with Shipman, I believe, was that his patients seemed to be almost exclusively elderly and very often quite frail. These are the very generation who were brought up on the philosophy that Doctor is always right and Doctor's orders, etc and would be very easy to manipulate into doing what he wanted them to do. I don't think they were the best judge of character because of how they had been brought up to think of Doctor's being their better's who were never to be questioned. I don't think it was coincidence that his patient list ended up the way it did. It's a long time since I've read anything on him but I do believe that some of the families of his victims did have a rather dim view of him when he was practising.
     
    Sarahlou, altojack, Eloise and 2 others like this.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice