UK - James Bulger, 2, abducted & murdered, Merseyside, 12 Feb 1993

The initial article on this thread makes it sound as if he wanted to tell his fiancee who he was but was prevented from doing so.

Just think if one of your relatives married this vile human being. It wouldnt matter to me if he had turned into Mother Teresa and regretted everything he did to little James - I could and would never want anything to do with him purely because of the act he comitted regardless of how old he was at the time. At 10 years old you know that that is terribly terribly wrong.

The things they did to James were repulsive and I admire James' mother immensely for keeping going through the years. I heard that she has been informed where one of the killers is. They are not in Austrlia by the way.
 
First, only one of the kids came from a broken home, the other came from a perfectly "normal" home. Alot of people experience abusive childhoods and dont murder little kids at age 11.

Secondly, 8 years is NOT many years in prison, its not paying your debt to society, imo a debt this high can never be paid. I dont believe they ever deserved their freedom in the first place.

As for enjoyment, you're right, we cant prove they did enjoy torturing and murdering a little boy, we also cant prove they didnt, and i for one would err on the side of caution. When it comes down to it, yes they walked with him a while, they could have also brought him back, they CHOSE to torture and murder a child, and thats a choice that cannot be excused, or justified.

I digress from the matter at hand. We all keep secrets yes, a sex secret, stuff we did in college, is a hell of alot different than being a proven and convicted child murderer, and we should all realise that differentation. This woman has the right to know if she could be a target and she has the right to know if the possible father of her future children is capable of murdering and torturing little kids, and no matter what anyone says - they had the capacity for it then, they could easily have it now.
 
But I have a opposite opinion then some.....

If you look into the background of these two boys at the time of the killing of James, you will find: That there was suspected sexual abuse, extreme neglect, beatings and violence by other family members, abuse of booze, unstable home life. That is just skimming the surface.

How many men abuse children, in their adult lives and then marry without telling their future spouse that they were just realized from Prison oh lets just say 2 months ago for extreme child abuse and neglect and for beating their wife also. They just happen to forget to tell their future spouse about it. On purpose of course. She then goes into the marriage blind, as to the "MOST" recent criminal convictions.

These two boys had to have a special platform building in court, because they were too small and short for the adult environment. They drew pictures during the court process, they did not understand what was going on in the courtroom.

One wanted the whole world to be made of chocolate. Sucked a lolly on the way to court, played with troll dolls.

The two had to given new ID, because oh they may last a week or so when they got out of prison after 8 years, to this day, people are still trying to find out where they live and intend to kill them.

So lets just say: Hubby and wife break up. Then she decides to inform the public about who her husband really is. This is say after 10 years. So now it is 24 years after the murder and now the man is 34. His life is now over as he knows it. Now he knows that he should never had told his wife about the crime well over a decade ago. It can easily be used for leverage and blackmail, extortion.

The Mother of one of the boys was harassed and beaten. When the boys were arrested, gangs and mobs gathered outside the home of the parents. They had to move across the country.

Even now the Mother and two children at home, have to move often, disrupt school, social networking, friends, if someone find out she is the mother of one of the boys. Her innocent two children at home suffer terribly from this.

Now this boy could tell his future wife about his past, if he feels that somehow it is of a benefit. But again, the murder happened 14 years ago, 6 years have passed since their release.

One thing I did find interesting: The case of these boys is akin to a movie called Child's play 3. This was not a movie one of the children picked out, it was an adult parent. There are some aspect that mirror the crime. Batteries were insert into James backside, in an attempt some say to "revive" and energize him like a doll.

Why don't you look up the case of Mary Bell, you can see how she was in the past, and how her life is now.

I would rather know the most recent past and conduct of a future husband if his crimes were not historical.

No one has proven that the boys "enjoyed" what they did to James, they actually walked with him most of the afternoon. They were looking from the crime and murder from the mind of a 10 year old child.

It is not like they did not mature and grow up and receive psych. help in the prison.

The reason they only served 8 years is because that was the sentence imposed by the Judge. A House of Lords Member decided to increase the term to 15 years when he was not legally allowed. That is why the original sentence stands.

The murder was horrible, I mean horrible. Beyond the scope of my understanding, how this could have happened. But it did and James suffered and was terribly victimized, horribly brutalized, but again the boys served their time and are trying to be productive members and contribute to society. Again, they are on life parole, so of course tabs are kept on them to ensure they do not harm anyone else.

I am also familiar with the Mary Bell case - but i think you're last paragraph makes an interesting point, how do you know they dont act on wants or intent ONLY because they are being kept tabs on - this may be the only thing stopping them, no offense, but doesnt exactly make me feel positive about them. YAY, they're being productive members of society - but only while we're watching!!!!!!

While i totally disagree with most of your comments, i do want to say that i understand (mostly) where you are coming from and respect your opinion.
 
He did own what he has done, he was in Prison for many years.

So he was tried, convicted, and served his sentence.

He paid his dues for his crime, and I agree when I learned about James, many years ago, his murder, I was disgusted.

I would say that if anyone knew his true "new" identity then he would be killed, hunted, harassed, not be able to get a job, friends, become a homeless person and have no semblance of a normal "adult" life, because he committed a crime, a murder 14 years ago, as time passes, 24 years ago, as time goes by 34 years as time goes by 45 and for the rest of his life, even though he did his "prison" time, he will have a life sentence, and he would never have a normal life and integrate into society, which is the goal of releasing prisoners into society.

So again, the speculative pros, vs the known or ought to be known cons.
But WHY SHOULD he have the right to have a normal "adult" life when he deprived the child he killed of HIS "adult" life!?!?! What about the parents of the child he killed? Does anyone think their life was normal after their child being murdered? This was a very cruel thing and I REALLY had HUGE doubts about this person being NORMAL now. I think she has a right to know what she is getting into. I bet we haven't heard the end of this. Sooner or later someone is going to let her know.....and it won't be pretty. I usually agree with you Cyber....but this time we are MILES apart.
 
Lets' just say for the discussion:

He tells the wife, then she mentions it to another, and then her relatives know. They constantly "view" him differently, are hostile and angry, they watch him, when he goes by a child, they scream don't let him near your child. Then tells them why, he would be treated as a devil.

Anger, resentment, frustration, no one will give him a job, no one wants to be friends, people harass him, throw things at him in the street. They both get phone calls both him and her, as she married him. Her family says "leave him or leave us".

She loses her job, her friends, her family is "against" them both, now the Landlord does not want them living at his flat that he rents. Finally a "mob" attacks him in the street and he is beaten.

All because he committed a terrible crime when he was 10 years old and now he is say 30. As he lays dying from a mob beating, in the street, he tries to tell people, but I changed, I design dresses now, I love art, I have a wife, a family, I don't want to die, there is no death penalty in Europe.

I don't think he can tell her unless he has permission, as I doubt the Government is going to go to the expense of relocating him and his wife if the information becomes public.

This all happened because he "told" his wife, then she told a friend..........

If he is on Life License(Parole)I very much doubt that he does not have a support team looking out to make sure he is "behaving" fine. So to me that is even more reason for him not to tell his wife.

I guess I am just from the school of thought, that when you do a terrible crime when you are very young, that "very serious incident" should not ruin the rest of your life.

Especially when it happened at 10, and you live to at least 64. You will pay for your entire life, even though you were not sentence to life at 10, you now do have a life sentence, but you are not behind bars.
 
in my story she suffers because he did not tell her. in cybers story he suffers because he did tell. given the choice be honest and if the killer suffers think of it as justice. at 10 he did not react in a moment of anger and push a kid in front of a car. he did not think he was going to protect himself from a bully and shoot him. he tortured a small child. why people don't refer to the fact they shoved batteries up his rectum as sexual abuse is beyond me. if this mans life is ruined because of this crime he committed at 10 i have no problem with it.
 
First, only one of the kids came from a broken home, the other came from a perfectly "normal" home. Alot of people experience abusive childhoods and dont murder little kids at age 11.

Secondly, 8 years is NOT many years in prison, its not paying your debt to society, imo a debt this high can never be paid. I dont believe they ever deserved their freedom in the first place.

As for enjoyment, you're right, we cant prove they did enjoy torturing and murdering a little boy, we also cant prove they didnt, and i for one would err on the side of caution. When it comes down to it, yes they walked with him a while, they could have also brought him back, they CHOSE to torture and murder a child, and thats a choice that cannot be excused, or justified.

I digress from the matter at hand. We all keep secrets yes, a sex secret, stuff we did in college, is a hell of alot different than being a proven and convicted child murderer, and we should all realise that differentation. This woman has the right to know if she could be a target and she has the right to know if the possible father of her future children is capable of murdering and torturing little kids, and no matter what anyone says - they had the capacity for it then, they could easily have it now.

I agree with you and I am afraid for their future children and the wife.

Both boys had terrible home lives which led to what they did. Crime Library has an extensive article detailing their home lives.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/classics3/bulger/

I don't see how anyone could grow up normal dealing with what they had to at home. I don't think years in lock up would help them come out all nice and squeaky clean.
 
Me personally? I don't know. This man's history is not the type of information that would stop me from marrying someone I thought I loved, so it probably wouldn't matter much if I had it or not. I certainly understand and concede that there are woman that would want to have this information before getting married! I do get that and I understand that.

I don't think this man's past indicates a higher likelihood of killing again. I'd say he probably has a lower likelihood of killing as an adult than men with other childhood issues, which might be well-hidden from a potential spouse.

I hope you are right that he has a lower likelihood but I don't see it. Prayers for the wife to be.
 
But I have a opposite opinion then some.....

If you look into the background of these two boys at the time of the killing of James, you will find: That there was suspected sexual abuse, extreme neglect, beatings and violence by other family members, abuse of booze, unstable home life. That is just skimming the surface.

How many men abuse children, in their adult lives and then marry without telling their future spouse that they were just realized from Prison oh lets just say 2 months ago for extreme child abuse and neglect and for beating their wife also. They just happen to forget to tell their future spouse about it. On purpose of course. She then goes into the marriage blind, as to the "MOST" recent criminal convictions.

These two boys had to have a special platform building in court, because they were too small and short for the adult environment. They drew pictures during the court process, they did not understand what was going on in the courtroom.

One wanted the whole world to be made of chocolate. Sucked a lolly on the way to court, played with troll dolls.

The two had to given new ID, because oh they may last a week or so when they got out of prison after 8 years, to this day, people are still trying to find out where they live and intend to kill them.

So lets just say: Hubby and wife break up. Then she decides to inform the public about who her husband really is. This is say after 10 years. So now it is 24 years after the murder and now the man is 34. His life is now over as he knows it. Now he knows that he should never had told his wife about the crime well over a decade ago. It can easily be used for leverage and blackmail, extortion.

The Mother of one of the boys was harassed and beaten. When the boys were arrested, gangs and mobs gathered outside the home of the parents. They had to move across the country.

Even now the Mother and two children at home, have to move often, disrupt school, social networking, friends, if someone find out she is the mother of one of the boys. Her innocent two children at home suffer terribly from this.

Now this boy could tell his future wife about his past, if he feels that somehow it is of a benefit. But again, the murder happened 14 years ago, 6 years have passed since their release.

One thing I did find interesting: The case of these boys is akin to a movie called Child's play 3. This was not a movie one of the children picked out, it was an adult parent. There are some aspect that mirror the crime. Batteries were insert into James backside, in an attempt some say to "revive" and energize him like a doll.

Why don't you look up the case of Mary Bell, you can see how she was in the past, and how her life is now.

I would rather know the most recent past and conduct of a future husband if his crimes were not historical.

No one has proven that the boys "enjoyed" what they did to James, they actually walked with him most of the afternoon. They were looking from the crime and murder from the mind of a 10 year old child.

It is not like they did not mature and grow up and receive psych. help in the prison.

The reason they only served 8 years is because that was the sentence imposed by the Judge. A House of Lords Member decided to increase the term to 15 years when he was not legally allowed. That is why the original sentence stands.

The murder was horrible, I mean horrible. Beyond the scope of my understanding, how this could have happened. But it did and James suffered and was terribly victimized, horribly brutalized, but again the boys served their time and are trying to be productive members and contribute to society. Again, they are on life parole, so of course tabs are kept on them to ensure they do not harm anyone else.

Batteries were inserted into his mouth, not his anus.
 
This case also reminds me of that other British case - it was the basis of the movie Heavenly Creatures with Kate Winslet - about two young girls who had a crush on each other. They killed one of their mothers when she tried to break them up. They went to prison for a long time and were released as adults. I don't know if they were given new identities. In any event, they did not murder again.

I do not believe the two young boys who killed James Bulger were psychopaths or evil.


Heavenly Creatures was based on a true story that happened in Christchurch, New Zealand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavenly_Creatures
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger

From the facts disclosed at trial, at this location, one of the boys threw blue modelling paint on Bulger's face. They kicked him and hit him with bricks, stones and a 22 lb (10 kg) iron bar. They then placed batteries in his mouth (false reports that the batteries were placed in his rectum were spread by a chain letter which also stated that Bulgers fingers were cut off using scissors, this again untrue.)

-----------------------------------------------------------

I know it's Wiki, so I'll try to find the info somewhere else too.

ETA: Same thought on Snopes:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/bulger.asp
 
I am fascinated by this sad yet intriguing case. I want to know where these 2 punks are I would like their identity reveiled one day.

I found a CNN article that said the boys were going to take the names of boys who were deceased. How do you make somebody "undead?" It said they would have the medical records and everything. I imagine being under NHS it's probably not too hard to find medical records of a deceased boy of similar age, but what about a Social Secuity/Tax id number? Do they have all those records changed to show the boys alive, so they can be used to give 2 punks new identities?

As far as the boy who is gay, I would think by this he should be traceable. They say, what 10% of the population is gay? That sounds a little high but let's say probably about 5% are "outed". This narrows it down a bit. Somebody has got to be thinking that their lover looks like the age progression of Robert.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger

From the facts disclosed at trial, at this location, one of the boys threw blue modelling paint on Bulger's face. They kicked him and hit him with bricks, stones and a 22 lb (10 kg) iron bar. They then placed batteries in his mouth (false reports that the batteries were placed in his rectum were spread by a chain letter which also stated that Bulgers fingers were cut off using scissors, this again untrue.)

-----------------------------------------------------------

I know it's Wiki, so I'll try to find the info somewhere else too.

ETA: Same thought on Snopes:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/bulger.asp

Yeah, I've been unclear on this too. Snopes and Wikipedia both say it was just a rumor, and Crime Library doesn't make it clear one way or the other. There did seem to be some type of sexual assault. The following are excerpts from Crime Library:

His clothing, which had been removed from the waist down, was laid near his head. His underwear was heavily soaked with blood. Nearby police found a heavy iron bar, two feet long, with bloodstains, and many bricks and stones with blood. They also found 3 AA batteries near the body. These batteries intrigued the investigators, who had suspicions about their placement before James was hit by the train.

Although there was no conclusive evidence indicating a sexual assault, forensic specialists believed that some of the injuries below the waist were suspicious and sexual in nature.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/young/bulger/4.html


The next morning, Robert said that he left Jon and James by the railway after Jon threw paint at James’s eye and had no idea what happened after that. But when the investigators asked if he stole batteries, Robert’s face grew crimson (“Yeah, well, I’m hot.”) He denied it, but was obviously deeply embarrassed by the mention of the batteries.

Jon had the batteries and threw one of them at James’s face. [Robert's version of events]

Detectives saved the most difficult questions for last. James had some trauma to his genitals, and police believed that one (or both) of the boys had inserted AA batteries into his rectum. These questions upset Robert more than any other accusations. When they asked who removed James’s pants and underwear, he began to cry. “I’m not a pervert, you know,” he said, suddenly agitated. “Well, how would you like me calling you a pervert?” Normally collected, Robert lost it. “He said I’m a pervert, they said I’ve played with his willy,” he told his mom, and refused to answer any more questions. But the detectives persisted. “What would Jon say you did to James?” they asked. Robert was greatly upset by now. He said Jon would say he took off James’s pants and played with his “privates.”

But when the subject of batteries came up, Jon became hysterical once again and started to cry. “I didn’t know anything about what Robert did with the batteries.” Jon was afraid that “you’ll blame it on me that I had them.” Asked if Robert did anything else to James’s genitals, Jon grew very upset, began to punch his father, Neil, who sat beside him.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/young/bulger/5.html

they removed his pants and underwear for the express purpose of sexual fondling. There was some speculation that they had pushed batteries into his anus, but they also denied this.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/weird/kids2/killing_3.html


Couldn't they have tested the batteries for DNA or something?
 
Oh I apologise if this was unconfirmed. I genuinely believed it was fact. I read somewhere that Thompson, the other murderer had been exposed to many horror movies including the film Childs Play. In the article I read it said that the batteries being inserted into the rectum would have been a childish attempt to almost bring James back to life.
 
Even if it isnt true about the batteries ,the other inhumane things they did to little James was shocking enough.
 
Yeah. Like they're somehow less evil for putting the batteries in his mouth instead of his anus. Don't think so.
 

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