GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #10

[Sweep the cat]

Has it been discussed where TM was on the 17th Dec.?

ps: WS's has it's own Forensic Astro forum. A chart was done for JY's return home on the 17th Dec. & another for VT. Just so you know if anyone is interested.

thanks for that Paulette can you give me the thread to that page I cannot seem to find it

 

[brownbread]

Exactly Otto.
The dividing wall between the flats (blocked off door wall) actually looks like it could be a load bearing wall. That means it would be two bricks thick. Internal walls are load bearers on big houses, they have to carry all the walls weight above on every floor, and also support the floors.

Don't let the appeareance of the external walls looking much thicker decieve you on the plans. You have to remember the external wall was built of thick stone on the outside. And I'm sure the Victorians would be using a cavity wall construction. i'e a gap between the inner, and outer wall.

Could you come and explain to our neighbours that by all accounts we shouldn't be kept awake by their baby crying at night given they live on the other side of a big, thick, loadbearing wall between two Victorian houses?


I know this wall business is totally unimportant in the grander scheme of things, but I've lived in a number of flats converted out of 19thC properties and the extent to which sound travels is extremely variable, even when you're dealing with the original loadbearing walls - even in the same property it can vary a lot. Sometimes there seem to be 'leaky' spots - we used to have a problem that our neighbour was getting disturbed by my radio in the morning to the extent it was waking him up. We moved the radio three inches to the right, and now he doesn't hear it at all.

All I'm saying is that although we're not talking about paper thin walls where you'd hear a spider walking across the room next door, sound might still travel more than you'd expect.

Sorry I'm going on about it again....I know it's irrelevant really!

 

[Myserty64]

I wonder what the accused will plead when the time comes?

When will the L/L be taken off police bail?

And as Phillb writes there are so many questions.

One of mine probably has no answer 'how does a very intelligent 32yo man come to murder a very intellgent young woman?'

 

[Phillb]

I suspect that he borrowed a car, perhaps from the woman that phoned crying. Something about the initial reports about breaking news also included a comment about CCTV on the bridge, and a large bag in the front seat. I have no idea where to find the link, but it was the night before the news of Tabak hit the air waves. I wonder if the woman called about when her car was borrowed, and that narrowed down the CCTV bridge footage to a particular time.

Where did he hide Joanna after the murder and before leaving her by the quarry? Good question. In the shed, someone suggested the water drum, perhaps in the flat (although not likely). I don't think he went far ... not to hide the body, and not to put things back in the flat after she was murdered. He's a people flow person, and I suspect that he would have over analysed every movement he made, always trying to do the unexpected and to make the least likely choice or decision.

If the body was left on Christmas morning, like I really think it was. All I can say is the Police concentrated their efforts on weekend 17th-19th (especially Fri 17th) I don't think the true picture of this shallow snow cover all week was really taken into account, especially regarding an undiscovered body for 8 days. I may be wrong. But I'm sure the truth will out eventually. I've always had serious doubts the correct body disposal date was being looked at.

So many confusing puzzles to this whole case aren't there??

 

[enzeder]

Sorry if this has already been posted.

Last updated at 1:36 AM on 23rd January 2011

Excerpt: "Police have been holding dramatic CCTV evidence that they believe shows Miss Yeates’s killer taking her body to be disposed of just hours after she was murdered.

The evidence captures what detectives believe to be the murderer driving over Clifton Suspension Bridge in Bristol the morning after killing landscape architect Miss Yeates, on his way to dumping her body three miles away in a lane in nearby Failand.

The images were caught by cameras on the bridge on December 18, the day after Miss Yeates, 25, vanished. It is understood that Avon and Somerset Police have had the footage for three weeks."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ncent-Tabak-charged-murder.html#ixzz1BqhAc5m3

 

[Phillb]

Sorry if this has already been posted.

WOW! That confuses things even more doesn't it?
If it's true, then who was the driver interviewed?

 

[ruined detroit]

Can someone explain how CJ can remain on police bail, after being arrested on suspicion of murder, if they have now charged another with murder. Do they think it is a joint enterprise? I think CJ has been treated very badly by the polis.

 

[enzeder]

This piece is at the bottom of the of the above quoted article. Post #65

My Vincent was 'normal' on trip home says mother

Scroll down to bottom of article
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ncent-Tabak-charged-murder.html#ixzz1Bqjao232

 

[Phillb]

Can someone explain how CJ can remain on police bail, after being arrested on suspicion of murder, if they have now charged another with murder. Do they think it is a joint enterprise? I think CJ has been treated very badly by the polis.

Especially when you read Police quotes (If true) like this.

He Jefferies

‘It appears he had brought himself under suspicion by making a series of comments which now appear to be irrelevant and innocuous. There was no case against him.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ncent-Tabak-charged-murder.html#ixzz1BqkQ6jT5

 

[otto]

Could you come and explain to our neighbours that by all accounts we shouldn't be kept awake by their baby crying at night given they live on the other side of a big, thick, loadbearing wall between two Victorian houses?


I know this wall business is totally unimportant in the grander scheme of things, but I've lived in a number of flats converted out of 19thC properties and the extent to which sound travels is extremely variable, even when you're dealing with the original loadbearing walls - even in the same property it can vary a lot. Sometimes there seem to be 'leaky' spots - we used to have a problem that our neighbour was getting disturbed by my radio in the morning to the extent it was waking him up. We moved the radio three inches to the right, and now he doesn't hear it at all.

All I'm saying is that although we're not talking about paper thin walls where you'd hear a spider walking across the room next door, sound might still travel more than you'd expect.

Sorry I'm going on about it again....I know it's irrelevant really!

It's not irrelevant. True. He said that he was away for the weekend. Even if the walls were paper thin, and something could be heard - from, say, the cat - he wasn't home ... but there is the question of whether he was there when the cameras first arrived and whether he gave a statement - something like "no comment" - at that time. Was he away for the weekend, where did he go ... and was there a comment from him at the time that the landlord was being questioned?

 

[gotaloton]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...d-not-know-Vincent-Tabak-says-her-father.html

 

[otto]

I wonder what the accused will plead when the time comes?

When will the L/L be taken off police bail?

And as Phillb writes there are so many questions.

One of mine probably has no answer 'how does a very intelligent 32yo man come to murder a very intellgent young woman?'

Not guilty ... a trial guarantees the possibility of being considered for lesser charges like manslaughter. He is charged with murder, and a guilty plea could result in a very severe sentence. He has better chances of sentence mitigation through trial.

If the landlord hasn't yet been released from bail, then there must be some connection with the evidence between the two ... maybe one pointed fingers at the other?


I think Vincent, an extremely bright young man, got a mixed message about Joanna in his head and decided to make a pass at Joanna. I think he could have been so embarrassed with screwing up (getting it wrong) that he could have reacted violently. I think that it was not well received, and she was desperately pulling away when he grabbed hold of her sock, and pulled it off. That sock, per police reports, was then most likely used to strangle her to prevent her from struggling. It was probably a situation where he had a fantasy, she was at first polite ... given that he was senior in her peer group ... and things went very wrong.

 

[otto]

If the body was left on Christmas morning, like I really think it was. All I can say is the Police concentrated their efforts on weekend 17th-19th (especially Fri 17th) I don't think the true picture of this shallow snow cover all week was really taken into account, especially regarding an undiscovered body for 8 days. I may be wrong. But I'm sure the truth will out eventually. I've always had serious doubts the correct body disposal date was being looked at.

So many confusing puzzles to this whole case aren't there??

The last police news release included information that it was possible that she was kept elsewhere before being taken to the Quarry Entrance. What date do you think she was put there?

 

[otto]

Sorry if this has already been posted.

There you go .. so it did have something to do with the main bridge ... the shortest distance ... and I think the bag was in his front seat (from early reports).

 

[aneurin]

Airports were closed in London on Dec 19 due to snow. Either he left on Dec 17, or he was most likely snowed in for a few days ... the roads were bad, the busses around Bristol were shut down for a period of time due to ice, and cycling wasn't an option. As far as I know a passport has to be shown when crossing EU borders. Did he walk to the train station and if so, where did he go? How far did he get in the snow?

Bristol has it's own airport. Both KLM and Easyjey provide flights to Amsterdam. As far Bristol Airport is concerned it was only closed briefly in the early hours of the Saturday morning but was otherwise operational. Interested parties might wish to consult Google Maps and investigate the possible routes one might take if, hypothetically speaking, one wished to drive from Clifton down to Lulsgate where the aiport is located.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12025793

 

[Phillb]

The last police news release included information that it was possible that she was kept elsewhere before being taken to the Quarry Entrance. What date do you think she was put there?

I think the body was left at the Quarry entrance on Christmas morning early hours. Just for the fact there was hardly any snow depth, and the body would surely have been seen that week if it had been there 7 days.

Have you a link to this latest bit about the body (possibly) being kept elsewhere?

 

[Myserty64]

Does this mean Joanna was dumped earlier than Christmas morning?
(my italics)

The evidence captures what detectives believe to be the murderer driving over Clifton Suspension Bridge in Bristol the morning after killing landscape architect Miss Yeates, on his way to dumping her body three miles away in a lane in nearby Failand.
The images were caught by cameras on the bridge on December 18, the day after Miss Yeates, 25, vanished. It is understood that Avon and Somerset Police have had the footage for three weeks.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ncent-Tabak-charged-murder.html#ixzz1Bqswlr5B

 

[Phillb]

Does this mean Joanna was dumped earlier than Christmas morning?
(my italics)

The evidence captures what detectives believe to be the murderer driving over Clifton Suspension Bridge in Bristol the morning after killing landscape architect Miss Yeates, on his way to dumping her body three miles away in a lane in nearby Failand.
The images were caught by cameras on the bridge on December 18, the day after Miss Yeates, 25, vanished. It is understood that Avon and Somerset Police have had the footage for three weeks.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ncent-Tabak-charged-murder.html#ixzz1Bqswlr5B

Yes that says on the 18th (day after she was killed) I'm not sure does that actually mean the day time? Or the early hours overnight.

Plus who was the driver they interviewed and eliminated weeks ago. If it was V.T, then why wasn't her next door neighbour questioned in more detail???? :waitasec:

And if it wasn't V.T, then who was driving her body across. Non of it makes sense to me :waitasec:

 

[enzeder]

There you go .. so it did have something to do with the main bridge ... the shortest distance ... and I think the bag was in his front seat (from early reports).

This article mentions the bag/bridge.

Published: 20 Jan 2011

Excerpt: A police insider said: "It would be strange if someone was able to move a body without being spotted.

"But someone carrying a bag or pulling a suitcase on wheels would not have stood out. It was the weekend before Christmas so a lot of people were going away for the holiday."

Officers are now checking surveillance camera footage taken from the Clifton Suspension Bridge for signs of a car with a large bag on the back seat.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3361448/Jo-Yeates-cops-close-to-breakthrough.html

 

[Phillb]

This article mentions the bag/bridge.

And it also states this on the same story.

Detectives also suspect strangled Jo's corpse could have been stowed in a vehicle for several days before it was dumped in a snowbound lane.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3361448/Jo-Yeates-cops-close-to-breakthrough.html

Which if accuarte from the same source, then it confuses the 18th December date even more?

One minute he was in Holland, then he didn't go, now he went again??? :waitasec: