GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #11

[notsure]

I read somewhere that JYs brother said she looked like she was asleep. That implies she had been in very cold conditions since she died so yes, outside somewhere if not by the quarry for 8 days.

What is amazing to me is why the killer didn't put the body in the surrounding woods so it wouldn't be found for months (or years). He was calculating enough to get rid of the body but not calculating enough to hide it. Bizarre!

That's the most puzzling thing to me. Calculating enough to know they had to get the body out of the building, but not enough to realise that her coat, keys, phone, etc, would still locate the murder in the building. Unless the killer couldn't risk going back into her flat, I suppose.

 

[Luna15]

i don't think vt is the killer, jmo

I strongly feel that VT is not the killer, I am also very concerned that the police will not want to lose face on this, given the fiasco surrounding CJ's arrest.

Good observation, It has been put out by the press and reported with photos showing JY's parents placing flowers by the side of the road, but it was also mentioned early on that the details of the exact positioning were not on the side of the road.

I also remember reading earlier on that the dog walkers found the body near the golf course lent up against a fence, but this was very early on and since then it has been reported as the body found by the road side.

I really dont want to start us all off, going round the houses as to where her body was found, but I assumed from this, that it was the entrance where she was found

"I am keen to hear from anybody who saw or heard anything or anyone acting suspiciously in the Longwood Lane area, particularly the area near to the entrance of Durnford Quarry over the last week, but in particular the weekend of Friday, December 17th to Sunday 19th December. This is the weekend when we experienced heavy snow in the area."

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3320820/Joanna-Yeates-was-strangled.html

Can someone advise me where did this rumour on twitter start from? where VT has a rock solid witness for the 17th?

Really frustrated we didn't get to see the Crimewatch appeal, it may have answered some questions for us.

 

[notsure]

Why are we only allowed to discuss people by their initials, which is a bit confusing at times trying to work out who some people mean? Also, can we say police instead of this law enforcement stuff, as no-one calls them that in the UK?

Thanks, I was wondering what LE meant.

 

[Deckard]

I am still with the stalwart band who believe Jo was not dumped in Longwood Lane on the 17th December. With VT now being placed in Cambridge on 24th/25th this surely rules him out of moving the body on these dates.

One thing that stuck with me at the time but seemed to receive scant attention is the report of a witness seeing a silver car or van "blocking" the road outside 44 Canynge Rd on the night Jo got back from her works party. The witness had to go around the vehicle to get by it (not sure if they were driving or on foot ) and even remembered there was I think electrical equipment in the front passenger seat of the vehicle.

Can anyone else remember this appearing in the press or a link that I could take another look at it ?

 

[bees]

I couldnt agree more, in fact I posted my thoughts on RS quite a while ago after she gave an interview on TV. I have very strong reseverations regarding her from that interview, her body language and her description of JY and GR relationship seemed over the top. Furthermore, her relationship with JY appears to be very close.

As someone said before, the police will have her exact location from phone records. As for body language giving you reservations about her - what do you mean?

 

[Lynn R]

I pulled together some newspaper articles regarding the body's discovery but stupidly logged off the tab! Grrrr. One of them stated that the body was 15 ft from the roadside 3 of them that it was covered in snow and two with pics (one the forensic tent and the other where the parents laid the flowers) which looked like the deposition of the body was in different places. One person said that the snow laid so heavy that the body would never have been seen.

Isn't it interesting that the consensus of recent posters SEEMS to be one of VT's innocence. I don't think any of us are naive in what makes a killer (good guy/bad guy/lunatic/woman)

 

[Cerebral]

From the DM, Jan 6th "When the body was found, the fire service were called in by police to activate a winch mechanism to lift it out for removal to a morgue."

It appears the body was frozen solid in a slumped, prone/horizontal, and the Fire Brigade were called to lift it out..in situ.. with minimal disturbance.. rather than to extricate it, as in a car wreck.

Seizing the No 44 house plans are interesting, but surely with cadaver dogs it would have taken seconds find the body if it was hidden at No 44... when the massive regional search was ongoing one would imagine the entire No 44 premises to have been searched with fine tooth comb. To befuddle the dogs I would imagine the 'freshly' dead body would have to be "freeze dried" solid or be locked up in a hermetically sealed container and then hidden the entire week...both very unlikely propositions.

 

[Sweep the cat]

As someone said before, the police will have her exact location from phone records. As for body language giving you reservations about her - what do you mean?

After watching the interview she blinking and very unsure where to too look.
She was very deliberate with her speach. Almost trying to make sure she said the right thing. I found it rather odd and strange in the way she presented herself. IMHO

 

[badhorsie]

From Googletranslate
http://translate.google.com/transla...0/__Getuige_kan_Vincent_T._vrijpleiten__.html

Sources close to the investigation say that the evidence against T. niet waterdicht is en dat hij zou zijn aangeklaagd om de continue druk van de media en de samenleving op de politie. not waterproof and that he would be charged to the continuous pressure from the media and society at the police. Die doet nog altijd een beroep op eventuele getuigen om zich te melden. That is still an appeal to any witnesses to come forward.

Vincents zus heeft inmiddels een paar keer telefonisch contact gehad met haar gearresteerde broer. Vincent's sister has been a few telephone contact with her brother arrested. Hoewel hij niet inhoudelijk over de zaak mag praten, is het wel duidelijk dat Vincent in alle toonaarden ontkent. Though it lacks the substance of the matter is allowed to talk, it is clear that Vincent vehemently denies. „Het is een enorme schok voor de familie, er heerst totale verbijstering”, aldus Paul Vermeij uit Prinsenbeek, die door de familie in de arm is genomen als woordvoerder. "It's a shock to the family, total bewilderment reigns," said Paul Vermeij from Prinsenbeek, by the family in the arm was taken as a spokesperson.

Hope this works

 

[Redgoblin]

I read somewhere that JYs brother said she looked like she was asleep. That implies she had been in very cold conditions since she died so yes, outside somewhere if not by the quarry for 8 days.

What is amazing to me is why the killer didn't put the body in the surrounding woods so it wouldn't be found for months (or years). He was calculating enough to get rid of the body but not calculating enough to hide it. Bizarre!

As it was close to Christmas perhaps the killer felt guilty that her body wouldn't be discovered for months/years and wanted her found earlier.

Or...

If the killer was playing games perhaps getting off on the fact she would be discovered on Christmas - maximum suffering.

 

[mikeymot]

I too was very surprised that the crimewatch reconstruction...together with an appeal by her family and boyfriend Greg Reardon was not televised tonight. At first I thought that, maybe the police had enough evidence but..bearing in mind how much a reconstruction on this scale costs...and including an appeal by the boyfriend and parents...I now cannot understand why the L/E would not use it to gather additional information unless...there was something within it/or something someone said..that may be used in a future prosecution?

I, personally, find this police force very scary, they arrested C/J...on what he had said...AND FOR NO OTHER REASON. Now, they have another 'suspect' that they have charged. Personally, (and I do realise that we are not privvy to any of the police evidence) I have many doubts about their motives in arresting and charging the current suspect. Do I think they have the right man?..the answer has to be NO. Do I think they are desperate to charge someone?..the answer is YES. Do I think they may have a good idea of who they would like to charge...but cannot...YES YES YES.

But, their frustration in not being able to get the right man should not allow them to pick a scapegoat from a list of those who fit the profile.

I really hope the L/E have 100% case against this guy....otherwise God help them..and J/Ys poor family in bringing this very sad saga to an end.

 

[enzeder]

I am still with the stalwart band who believe Jo was not dumped in Longwood Lane on the 17th December. With VT now being placed in Cambridge on 24th/25th this surely rules him out of moving the body on these dates.

One thing that stuck with me at the time but seemed to receive scant attention is the report of a witness seeing a silver car or van "blocking" the road outside 44 Canynge Rd on the night Jo got back from her works party. The witness had to go around the vehicle to get by it (not sure if they were driving or on foot ) and even remembered there was I think electrical equipment in the front passenger seat of the vehicle.

Can anyone else remember this appearing in the press or a link that I could take another look at it ?

Here's one report.

Officers are also trying to trace a silver saloon car left parked in the middle of the road outside Miss Yeates’s flat hours after she was last seen alive.

Neighbours reported the vehicle in the early hours of December 18. Other cars had to mount the pavement to pass around it.

The car, believed to belong to a tradesman because it had tools and light bulbs on the seats, was moved before 10am but nobody saw the driver.

Officers say the owner might have had trouble in the snow which fell that night and they want to eliminate him or her from their investigation.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...urder-The-final-text-friend-replied-late.html

 

[Lynn R]

Oh gosh, I've gone into some detail regarding this on the forum earlier
I'll add the link might be best. It's just the fact I find it very hard to believe the body was undiscovered for 7 days. There was no deep snow to hide the body, 2'' at most all week.
The dog walkers would have been one of the first lot of people (if not the first) to walk down that lane at 9 a.m. They spotted it straight away. They also said (If press reports are true) that they walked along that lane daily, and would be sure to have seen it if it had been there days before.

No significant snow melt occured during Christmas morning, not to suddenly reveal a once snow covered body. It was freezing that night, no thaw set in until Boxing day.

Body deposit site.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #4


Bristol snow depth conditions.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #5

I had a look at the pics on the post and the deposition spot is extremely risky! As in easily seen - it seems to be one of desperation. However due to what I have read in a few articles from DM/DM & Sun I think she WAS found covered in snow - but that may be an assumption made by the press - one thing is sure she was found frozen. She could have been kept outdoors for several days - perhaps in a boot back of a van etc

 

[Deckard]

From the DM, Jan 6th "When the body was found, the fire service were called in by police to activate a winch mechanism to lift it out for removal to a morgue."

It appears the body was frozen solid in a slumped, prone/horizontal, and the Fire Brigade were called to lift it out..in situ.. with minimal disturbance.. rather than to extricate it, as in a car wreck.

Seizing the No 44 house plans are interesting, but surely with cadaver dogs it would have taken seconds find the body if it was hidden at No 44... when the massive regional search was ongoing one would imagine the entire No 44 premises to have been searched with fine tooth comb. To befuddle the dogs I would imagine the 'freshly' dead body would have to be "freeze dried" solid or be locked up in a hermetically sealed container and then hidden the entire week...both very unlikely propositions.

Wouldn't this make you think that LE weren't too convinced that Jo lay undiscovered in Longwood Lane for 8 days either ? As you say, it is a very unlikely proposition. The killer having an intermediate dump site is most probable. There are some weird people out there. Maybe he wanted to take pictures of his prey, who knows ?

He wanted Jo to be found on Christmas Day to intensify his own satisfaction not alleviate the suffering of friends and family imo. Take a google street trip from Clifton to the quarry. Throw a stone every 100 yards after you cross the river and you'll find a "better" dump site among trees and shrubbery.

 

[bees]

After watching the interview she blinking and very unsure where to too look.
She was very deliberate with her speach. Almost trying to make sure she said the right thing. I found it rather odd and strange in the way she presented herself. IMHO

Maybe that's what you do if you haven't been on TV before and you are talking about your recently murdered best friend. You'd be upset, nervous but trying to focus on sounding coherent. I'm not sure anyone in those circumstances could come across as "normal".

 

[Deckard]

Here's one report.

Alarm bells anyone !!

 

[Lynn R]

I too was very surprised that the crimewatch reconstruction...together with an appeal by her family and boyfriend Greg Reardon was not televised tonight. At first I thought that, maybe the police had enough evidence but..bearing in mind how much a reconstruction on this scale costs...and including an appeal by the boyfriend and parents...I now cannot understand why the L/E would not use it to gather additional information unless...there was something within it/or something someone said..that may be used in a future prosecution?

I, personally, find this police force very scary, they arrested C/J...on what he had said...AND FOR NO OTHER REASON. Now, they have another 'suspect' that they have charged. Personally, (and I do realise that we are not privvy to any of the police evidence) I have many doubts about their motives in arresting and charging the current suspect. Do I think they have the right man?..the answer has to be NO. Do I think they are desperate to charge someone?..the answer is YES. Do I think they may have a good idea of who they would like to charge...but cannot...YES YES YES.

But, their frustration in not being able to get the right man should not allow them to pick a scapegoat from a list of those who fit the profile.

I really hope the L/E have 100% case against this guy....otherwise God help them..and J/Ys poor family in bringing this very sad saga to an end.

Does anyone know if there was a legal reason behind scrapping the reconstruction? Personally I think it is sending out the wrong message to the public i.e. 'we have our man' and surely influencing future jurors. If there IS a legal reason the police should come out and say so.

 

[mikeymot]

"the body itself was discovered at the first available opportunity in its final location"

Yes, but the 'first available....VISIBLE...opportunity in its final location.. Visibility being available AFTER thawing of a heavy snowfall.

 

[Phillb]

Alarm bells anyone !!

Yes me, very loud ones too.

Glad you join me in the 'Christmas morning' Stalwart bunch.
As Delboy used to say to Rodney 'you know it makes sense'

 

[bees]

Just seen this:

Paul Vermeij, the spokesman for the Tabak family, said: “Vincent seems to be coping with what has happened to him. He has remained positive about it.
“He told her ‘I am safe, I am *positive’. He is confident there will be a good outcome to this. He says the prison staff are treating him well.
“His girlfriend and his family have received many letters of support from friends and she told him about them.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...ent-tabak-feels-safe-in-jail-115875-22878251/