GUILTY UK - Jordan Burling, 18, Died Weighing Less Than 6 Stone, Body Of Baby Also Found, Leeds, June 2016

I just don't get it at all. About the only thing that is clear is that he lost weight until the point he died... his mother and grandmother claim it was all down to him, stopping eating, moving, going to the toilet etc. If we believe them, what kind of person in this era of the NHS (ie, cost is not an issue) doesn't call a doctor when it becomes obviously a problem? And do I believe them? I don't know, because they don't really seem to care much, and yet, he was visibly declining when he did have some freedom, so maybe some of this was actually his choice; I'd initally expected something like the Turpin case but that doesn't seem so as he wasn't imprisoned (at least initially), maybe he did have some mental health problems which began the spiral.

Tbh, I'm inclined to say from the statements quoted so far that they ALL seem to have some intellectual/mental health problems in varying ways, a lot of answers from different people are either not making sense or seeming like there's a lack of understanding. Perhaps they're trying to play it as "too stupid to understand he needed medical care; they just cared for him as best they could", but I'm not convinced that's actually the case, as I don't think they're as impaired as all that, although there certainly seems something not right about the whole family.
 
This is one of the most evil cases of neglect I have ever seen since I've been on here. I don't think any of us could understand or comprehend how it all started. There really is no explanation. It's disgusting, heart wrenching and sick.
 
Gah. These people are awful. Those interviews with the grandmother? She's so unbelievably callous. They all sound seriously "off" and they clearly don't get how off their remarks are. It sounds like no one ever loved him. His dad thought sending a child payment was all he needed to bother with. And he was just too busy to ever see his kids or give a rat's *advertiser censored*. He can't "remember" anything about his kids or when he saw them.

His mother couldn't ever be bothered to follow up with medical care from the time he was tiny? It sounds like she didn't want any of them. And by the time the last one arrived she just shoved the baby in a bag and stuck it/him on a shelf in the closet.

But I also agree...what happened that he went from pudgy teen to rapidly losing weight and then eventually giving up walking and using the toilet himself? There are other things that cause massive diarrhea and wasting. I'm reminded of reading of Jordan Rubin years ago. He has these awful pics of him as a teen with an emaciated body. He kept losing weight and doctors weren't helping until his father finally found him a "cure". I just looked him up and he had Crohn's severely enough his doctors thought he'd die. Maybe the autopsy is correct and there was nothing to find. But I just kept thinking while reading this story that something happened. But no one cared. No one in his life could be bothered to take him to a doctor. And once he was bed bound no one could be bothered to feed or change him enough etc.

I mean, what do I know. But I keep thinking more it was depraved indifference to him. Like he wasn't worth the waste of space and food. More so than a deliberate attempt to starve and kill him. They just didn't care about him and never did. But would they deliberately withhold food? There was already another disabled man who grew up in the house and wasn't starved. If they deliberately starved him (without apparently restraining him?)...what happened?
 
Hopefully we'll get a round up of today's evidence at some point.
 
Tweets

Consultant nurse Helen Hill has almost 30 yrs experience & told Leeds Crown Court she’d never seen pressure sores like the one’s on the body of 18 yr old Jordan Burling. He died weighing 6 stone. Trial continues.

A health visitor referred Jordan Burling’s family to Leeds Social Services in 2001, saying “the parents are struggling & need parental support.” Jordan died in 2016 at the age of 18, weighing just 6 stone.

Health visitor Monica Mudunge wrote to social services in 2001 saying 4yr old Jordan Burling was not toilet trained, had tooth decay and was only saying a few words. He died aged 18. Jordan’s mother, grandmother & sister deny manslaughter.

Emma Glasbey (@emmaglasbey) | Twitter
 
Not sure if this means the conclusion of the prosecution case or just for today.

Trial (Part Heard) - Witness Number 15 Continues - 10:54
Trial (Part Heard) - Witness Number 16 Sworn - 11:24
Trial (Part Heard) - Witness Number 16 Continues - 11:27
Trial (Part Heard) - No Event - 11:58
Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 12:40 - 12:20
Trial (Part Heard) - Witness Number 17 Continues - 12:44
Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 14:00 - 12:58
Trial (Part Heard) - Witness Number 17 Continues - 14:02
Trial (Part Heard) - No Event - 14:28
Trial (Part Heard) - Witness evidence concluded - 14:46
Trial (Part Heard) - Legal Submissions - 15:02
Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 10:15 - 15:07
 
I don't know if anyone can answer this, but assuming Jordan had no underlying physical/mental health issues would he need to be socially isolated to be so developmentally delayed?

No nursery, playing with other kids etc, and a total lack of interaction from his parents?
 
I don't know if anyone can answer this, but assuming Jordan had no underlying physical/mental health issues would he need to be socially isolated to be so developmentally delayed?

No nursery, playing with other kids etc, and a total lack of interaction from his parents?
My experience with nurseries has been that they work with parents and children on an individual basis as regards toilet training, because they don't want a distressed child. As long as parents don't implement training, then nurseries will continue with nappies. Delayed speech might be more of an indication he was socially isolated and neglected IMO.
 
I hope we're going to hear from a teacher or someone to better understand who he was and what his capabilities were before the steep decline.

I really can't comprehend how any of this has happened in this day and age. If they were living way out in the sticks maybe, but this just makes no sense.
 
Let’s assume for a moment that Jordan caused the initial weight lose on his own. Let’s say it was due to a mental healthy issue. Jordan then feels “ something crack” in his leg and decides he’s not going to get up anymore. Not even to use the bathroom.
HOW is that even remotely ok with the rest of the family!?! They claim he wouldn’t allow a DR to come to the house. Since he was no longer getting up, and was wasting away, WTH WAS HE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT!?
It’s not like he was going to run out the back door.
There has to be some serious mental defect in this family.
 
Yes, and even if we ignore Jordan's plight for a moment, and just take the baby that died - was the reason (assuming it was a stillbirth) that they didn't want to pay for a funeral? That was one of the first questions Dawn asked after Jordan died. I can't think why she wouldn't have called an ambulance when she went into labour, she wouldn't have known the baby would be stillborn.

Unless he wasn't stillborn, which is even harder to think about.

For some reason I can't help thinking we're missing a proper psychiatric assessment here. I'm actually amazed they called an ambulance for Jordan when they did. Why was Dawn in the kitchen behaving as if nothing was happening, and Denise watching television? That suggests an inability to process reality, or severe trauma, or mental illness. I won't go with extraordinarily low IQs because they talked about college and homeschooling so they are at least functioning adults.
 
Dawn was holding down a job as well so any possible impairment can't be too severe. Which again doesn't make sense with how Jordan was found.

I hope the jury are excused from service for a long time after this.
 
I hope we're going to hear from a teacher or someone to better understand who he was and what his capabilities were before the steep decline.

I really can't comprehend how any of this has happened in this day and age. If they were living way out in the sticks maybe, but this just makes no sense.

I think of people like Laura Ingalls who did spend a huge portion of her earliest life totally isolated except for the occasional visit to the store. Years in which they traveled and rarely saw anyone. She did later go to school but so did Jordan. I would suspect a combination of very little interaction that was developmentally appropriate probably combined with disabilities he was born with. Plenty of older children grow up fairly neglected and then go to school like him but aren't so severely behind.

I didn't really actively potty train any of my children but they all potty trained themselves at age 2. I mean I bought a training potty and let them go naked. Showed them the potty etc. Kids in a healthy environment with normally functioning brains learn so much with so little effort. But if the kids aren't talked to much, no one reads them books etc I'm sure it slows them down. But I'm having a hard time thinking any child around adults and other kids talking around them, television sets running a lot etc can still barely speak at 4 or isn't potty trained unless there is some other underlying issue. There is a difference between parents who pay little attention and like Romanian orphanage neglect where a kid is shoved in a crib and barely fed or changed. Those children don't even physically grow to a normal size. Jordon was at one point a totally normal sized kid with extra weight on him.

Just thinking out loud here....
 
Ah, I remember reading in one of the reports that he had a hearing aid. That could be one reason for delayed speech.

Yes, there was a report that, around I think 7 mo it was, it was shown he had hearing loss but his mother never took him for the recommended follow ups. Then a few years later there were more events where he was supposed to be given further evaluation and help for speech and hearing but his mother still never took him. Then they mention when years later when he was much older he had a hearing aid. It's not clear when he finally got a hearing aid in there. I had forgotten about reading all that.

I wonder why all those notes of him as an infant with his parents never taking him for a follow up....why did no one follow up on his family? If a child is not talking, his mother is supposed to take him and someone knows and marks that he was never taken...why no follow up on that?
 
Ah it wasn't the end of the prosecution case. I can only find two tweets and no live reporting from Leeds Live yet this morning.

Emma Glasbey (@emmaglasbey) | Twitter
Professor Mangham examined samples of 18 yr old Jordan Burling’s bones. Told court there were signs of “very severe malnutrition. Not something we see in UK very often.”

Professor David Mangham tells the jury Jordan’s bones were very thin, caused by chronic malnutrition & lack of physical activity. He says changes would take months or even years to reach this severity.

---

Trial (Part Heard) - Witness Number 18 Continues - 11:34
Trial (Part Heard) - Witness Number 19 Continues - 12:05

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