UK - Julia James, 53, murdered, Snowdown, Kent, 27 April 2021 *ARREST* #2

Discussion in 'Currently Awaiting Trial' started by Alyce, Apr 28, 2021.

  1. DC50

    DC50 Active Member

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    Do we know if Toby was on the lead at the time of the attack? If he was off the lead he hopefully didn't actually witness anything and instead returned to Julia.

    The dog theft story never sat right with me, are older Jack Russell's the usual target? In the ones I've come across it's always been the trendier breeds snatched from gardens/outside shops.

    It's just such a strange case.
     


  2. Winstie

    Winstie Member

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    I personally wouldn’t think Toby was the target to snatch. He’s a beautiful dog, but he isn’t a breed that is nessesarily taken, and from his photos you can see he’s a mature dog, probably not at the best age to breed from. Dog snatchers probably look for needs and ages. He’s beautiful and brave, but I don’t think he was the reason JJ was targeted. JMO
     
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  3. tallmansix

    tallmansix Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I'm baffled by how the dog theft theory keeps coming up time and time again on this case when the only connection is that Julia was walking one of the 10 million dogs in the UK.

    I posted stats about this in the first thread, just 117 reports of dog theft or attempted theft vs 81,222 violent crimes in a year in the Kent area.

    Compared to the 117 dog thefts in Kent, 10 times more people were raped, 3 times as many child rapes and about the same number of males raped as dog thefts yet we don't see them on social media or the news so it distorts peoples view of actual crime levels. There was also 117 shootings in Kent in the same period.

    1. Dog thefts get over exposed on social media - they represent 0.1% compared to violent crimes but we don't see 1000 social media posts or news reports about violent crime for each dog theft we see - pet owners see a distorted view of the world from their social media.

    2. Dog thefts increased significantly last year which has added to the hype but that period is included in my stats - they are for 2020

    3. Dog thefts are usually of puppies and high value pedigrees, often taken from gardens / outside shops / breeders and puppy farms.

    4. Dog thieves usually have a car or van nearby to make a quick getaway.

    5. Dog thieves don't typically steal 9 year old dogs - much better money to be made elsewhere.

    6. The dog wasn't stolen. It would be easier to steal the dog than kill Julia. A dog thief wouldn't take such a risk for a dog.

    7. Dog thieves are usually connected to organised crime, it doesn't appear to be the case with this suspect but just my opinion.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  4. Winstie

    Winstie Member

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    @Grouse i think this makes a lot of sense. That’s the best map I’ve seen which could explain him beingin that place as photoman the next day. I think he camped out that night somewhere inbetween, but only speculating. Great sleuthing. Thanks for sharing
     
  5. Cuko

    Cuko Well-Known Member

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    I’m not LE, just a longtime Jack Russell mum, so I don’t know the accurate stats on theft. However, JR’s are not frequent targets but have sometimes been taken. Well-exercised older JRs tend to remain very muscular and lively and are often mistaken for younger dogs. Toby, for instance, looks relatively young for his age. I’m delighted he was neither harmed nor taken, but by appearance he could have been a candidate for snatching.
     
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  6. Winstie

    Winstie Member

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    @Grouse i think this makes a lot of sense. That’s the best map I’ve seen which could explain him beingin that place as photoman the next day. I think he camped out that night somewhere inbetween, but only speculating. Great sleuthing. Thanks for sharing
     
  7. Mrs Marple

    Mrs Marple Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree with you on this.

    Sometimes l think people need to try to make sense of things because it's easier than the alternative.
     
  8. SocksKitty

    SocksKitty Former Member

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    The mind picks some very bad times to take a walk doesn't it?
     
  9. Grouse

    Grouse Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @Winstie . Yes, he could have camped out, but why wait for daylight to then move on? The photo seems to have been his downfall. Guess a lot depends on his mental state, he might have camped to remain in the area for other reasons than avoiding detection.
     
  10. Grouse

    Grouse Well-Known Member

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    JMO but I think a dog thief who has now found himself on a murder charge would be a lot less relaxed than that young man appeared.
     
  11. sundaaaay

    sundaaaay Well-Known Member

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    I consider it odd there aren’t more pictures and information being leaked but there might be a reason he is not known locally as some new housing estates have an odd community atmosphere, where everyone keeps to themselves, until it settles.

    There could be a simple reason he is not known to the community:
    • He is only recently renting a room from a landlord
    • He very recently moved there
    • His parents are separated and he spends time there sparingly
    • The special needs theory, he was educated and grew up separated from his peers
    • They just sleep there, drive everywhere and work in another location
     
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  12. Happymoon

    Happymoon Member

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    to be honest, we live on a new build estate, and having moved in just before covid we have never met and rarely see 50% of the road we live on.. there’s 10 houses. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for whomever to keep themselves to themselves, and just not have seen their neighbours.
     
  13. Winstie

    Winstie Member

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    Perhaps maybe the thrill of being close. Or perhaps to regain composure before returning home if anyone was there. I personally think he remained hidden and camped in the woods, as LE would be all over walking routes within the time it took him to get to his hone - IMO
     
  14. Pinkizzy

    Pinkizzy Well-Known Member

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    Belmarsh has a good reputation. Didn't Coulson spend a few weeks in Belmarsh for something?
     
  15. Skigh

    Skigh Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if there was no photo the police would still be looking for the culprit . I think witnesses probably gave a description of someone they saw acting suspiciously ,maybe carrying the bag and the photo confirmed it was the same person.

    I also wonder how long police had the photo before it was made public.
     
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  16. Skigh

    Skigh Well-Known Member

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  17. Winstie

    Winstie Member

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    The huge bag he was carrying that we don’t see in the now deleted pictures was obviously a massive red flag to whomever saw him and took that picture. We don’t know the time, but if it was in the morning, perhaps he was leaving the area after camping with that big bag.
     
  18. Grouse

    Grouse Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. The thrill of being close scenario has been mentioned by a few on the thread as being a factor in other cases, so supports the camping theory.

    There was a potential window of around 1 hr 40 mins though, given we've now been told JJ set off around 2pm, so he could have had had plenty of time to get home. Maybe via one of the less public routes I highlighted in yellow (the longest of which is about 2.3 miles so 30-40 mins), though I have since thought about that. Although there might be less chance of actually being seen in woods or on a path, as opposed to a street, there might be more chance of being remembered in that context if he was. This is all assuming he was even concerned about avoiding detection - getting himself caught on camera next day like that makes me question that.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
  19. Skigh

    Skigh Well-Known Member

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    I really am in two minds as to whether he camped out and was returning home or he was there for another reason.

    I think he could have been blood stained after the attack and there was no evidence in the photo,though only the top part of his body was shown. He did not immediately look as though he had spent the night in the woods.

    with the bag,he might have been leaving the area to stay else where rather than returning to the scene.
     
  20. kittythehare

    kittythehare Well-Known Member

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    I think if it was a morning shot, he would have or could have camped out, okay.
    Today search of railway track? Why?
     
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