UK UK - Leah Croucher, 19, Emerson Valley, Milton Keynes, 14 Feb 2019 #4

Discussion in '2010's Missing' started by Steleheart, Feb 19, 2019.

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  1. Lindsay Lou Who

    Lindsay Lou Who Well-Known Member

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    I have often wondered the source of the witnesses that apparently saw Leah on a phone upset around 11am. Was this a red herring?
    We know her phone was off, so if this was Leah she had a second phone.
     
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  2. HollyHunter9

    HollyHunter9 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I have often thought this myself about the witnesses because we know Leah's phone turned off at 8.34am (although recent info I came across on Bernadette walker case is that phones can still be traced to areas even when turned off) so were these witness statements red herrings on purpose? Or were they mistaken and it was not leah? JMO

    Exactly, either she had a 2nd phone (which would explain why police have not found any evidence of her relationships with certain people) or it wasn't her at all.

    I also think the witness who claimed to have seen Leah's taekwondo hoodie months later was also a red herring whether it was intentional or not. Again JMO

    *edited for grammar
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2021
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  3. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy Well-Known Member

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    To my mind, the outing the evening before was to collect an alternate phone from somewhere or someone, knowing that her normal one would have to go off at some point. I also think she may have stashed a small bag somewhere for collection the next day - not so much clothes as a few treasured items - so that she could go out the next day looking exactly as if she was just heading to work as normal and not attract any particular attention.

    Am I right in thinking she was wearing the hoodie under her black jacket in the CCTV image? With the hood bit sticking up over the collar? It was a very distinctive item. If, as I believe, she walked out of her life voluntarily and didn't want to be traced, leaving it by the lake would be a good way to halt, or at least massively delay, the search for her right there. A different kind of red herring.

    We'll have to agree to disagree largely about X, but I do think if they were friends he may have been complicit in helping her plan all of this, and if that's the kind of thing he shared with the police then - assuming they could verify what he said - it could explain why the tone of their communications has changed over time.

    JMO
     
  4. HollyHunter9

    HollyHunter9 Well-Known Member

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    This an interesting viewpoint and not one I've considered before. Definitely a possibility but I would've thought her family would have noticed her sneaking a bag out of the house when she left or noticed any items missing from her room afterwards.

    Yes that's correct it is underneath her coat in cctv images. The sighting of the hoodie was reported around 4 months after her disappearance so do you believe after leaving the area to disappear leah returned 4 months later to place it to throw off the police investigation (which police had already admitted they had no leads and her disappearance was 'baffling') or was it there the whole time and during their extensive searches they completely missed it? Only to then find out about it 4 months later but by then it's disappeared? Not trying to be confrontational just genuinely curious.
     
  5. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy Well-Known Member

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    I agree a decent sized overnight bag would probably have been noticed. She had her chance to do that a fortnight earlier, and blew it, for whatever reason. I think she left in the end with only the clothes she was wearing, which is not unusual for people walking out of their lives for good. I'm thinking just of a small package of items, special things, maybe in a little carrier bag: photos, childhood objects, or some such. Nothing that would draw attention. I have a clear sense that that evening sortie was about setting up the conditions for her disappearance the next day. But it might just have been to collect a phone or to finalise arrangements with someone.

    Regarding the hoodie, as I understood it - I may have got this wrong - the hoodie was spotted hung on a tree or bush. I interpreted that as one of those situations where someone finds an item of clothing and hangs it up away from the ground in the hope that whoever lost it will find it if they come back. I think she could have left it somewhere in that area, either as a decoy (probably expecting it would be found sooner) or just to dispose of it as it was so recognisable, only for someone else to come across it later and display it prominently. But - again as I understand it - the hoodie was removed again before it could be looked at properly, so we'll never really know, and maybe it was another item of clothing altogether. And I confess I hadn’t realised the time lag was as long as four months, so in all likelihood it wasn’t Leah’s at all.

    I don't believe in a million years she would have come back again. People who walk out of their lives like that don't come back.

    But equally I think that if you believe X is up to his neck in it, then it would be really bonkers for him to have had some accomplice plant the hoodie as a red herring later. All it would take is for one person to witness it being planted, and a crime he had basically got away with would suddenly come full circle right back to his doorstep.

    So, to me, either the hoodie was left by Leah or it was a different hoodie altogether. I'm not very invested in either theory tbh. It was just your mention of red herrings that made me think it could be useful to someone wanting to leave for good to make it look like she'd taken it off and waded into the lake, and let the police waste a week or two dredging the lake while she put some distance between herself and MK.

    The more fundamental bit for me is that what happened the day before seems to me to have been part of a plan. Having never turned her geolocation off before, I feel sure she was advised to do that by someone who was aiding her in disappearing, and who perhaps also supplied her with a fresh phone, some onward travel arrangements, and some support when she got to wherever she was headed. That might have been X (I think he at least knew about it) or more likely imo was a more formal organisation.

    I'm just speculating, of course, though. JMO/MOO etc.
     
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  6. Spiderplant

    Spiderplant Well-Known Member

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    Glad to see discussion on the thread.

    As I've been away a little while the main points I noted were;

    The possible links to J McCann- from new member- welcome! quotes to some disturbing quotes and timelines... still unanswered if he was called to probation hearing in MK- however was he allowed to drive himself? In my mind he would have been accompanied...

    Also the discussion around X- Juicylucy- it's not easy to disagree with the majority on a forum- but it's interesting to have an alternative take so thanks for sharing and highlighting the 'hearsay' aspect...facts are missing in this case, so we are led to follow gut feelings...mostly statements made by others with a scattering of comments from the police... something is off.

    I do not believe Leah has voluntarily disappeared, nor that she committed suicide- knowing MK as I do, it couldn't have happened undiscovered unless she leaves the area to do it... and we have no information on her recent movements other than the hotel visits- even those areas on train stops that she could easily visit prior- Bletchley, Northampton, Leighton Buzzard don't really have areas close/accessible to the stations that would be good suicide spots that allow you to hide your own body... IMO ...but I've never planned a suicide so can't vouch for my thought process here.
     
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  7. crazychris

    crazychris Well-Known Member

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    I don't think for a minute that she committed suicide or vanished voluntarily. May be wrong but I think she was abducted that morning by either a friend/relative of Mr X or a total stranger. What 's the odds though of a young woman maybe having an affair with an engaged Muslim man then being abducted by a total stranger instead? Pretty long I'd say.
     
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  8. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy Well-Known Member

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    Well, I didn't know, so I looked.

    There are about a dozen so-called honour killings in the UK per year, which is a dozen too many, but nevertheless makes it a fairly rare crime.

    What is an honour killing and how common are they in the UK?

    And there were more than 5700 kidnappings in England and Wales last year, which is more than 15 per day, every day.

    England, Wales: kidnappings 2019 | Statista

    So the odds are probably shorter than you'd think.
     
  9. Jenesaisquoi

    Jenesaisquoi Well-Known Member

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    Thinking of you and your family on your birthday, Leah.
     
  10. Skigh

    Skigh Well-Known Member

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    I imagine that a high proportion of the kidnap charges relate to custody disputes. The number of kidnapping cases of 19 year olds on their way to work in a residential area ,I think would be extremely low.

    Happy Birthday Leah,you are not forgotten.
     
  11. WiseOwl

    WiseOwl Well-Known Member

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    Happy 22nd Birthday Leah.

    Thinking of the Croucher family today.
     
  12. daisydew124

    daisydew124 New Member

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    <modsnip>
    Thinking of Leah today on her birthday and frequently in general, the case will always stand out to me over most other cases. I do hope the truth, whatever it may be, comes to light one day.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2021
  13. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy Well-Known Member

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    Under 1000 abductions per year involve under 18s, of which fewer than 25% are parental abductions (slightly old statistics for the latter), so around 4% of the total in fact.

    Child abduction offences in England and Wales 2021 | Statista

    Child abduction in England & Wales: the key numbers

    I don't personally think Leah was abducted, by a stranger or anyone else, but it's worth looking at actual statistics if you're interested in relative probability. Human beings are notoriously rubbish at guesstimating the frequency and likelihood of events, particularly feared ones.

    I didn't know it was Leah's birthday today, so I'll butt out now, out of respect.
     
  14. Algorithmwillgetyou

    Algorithmwillgetyou New Member

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    Im sorry but merely talking to someone is NOT investigating them, you cant just take someones word what sort of police work is that...if X's phone records, house, car was not searched then that family have been failed, and to charge Leah's brother and send him to court was absolutely DISGUSTING and UNECCESSARY. The pain that family must be in is unimaginable, my heart goes out to them, better police work would have solved this case in this digital world we live in. If I was them id pay for a private detective.
     
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  15. crazychris

    crazychris Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I disagree with you abut her brother. If he was harrassing X and going to his house, knocking on the door and threatening him then that is unacceptable. Maybe he was warned and carried on doing it. We can't just all take the law in to our own hands or there'll be anarchy.

    Also how do we know how closely or not he was investigated? We don't.
     
  16. Jenesaisquoi

    Jenesaisquoi Well-Known Member

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    A bump for Leah. And a link to the reporting portal in case anyone is able to give new info

    Public Portal
     
  17. Candelle

    Candelle Member

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    JMO obviously- although of course that could the case, in a busy area its not unfeasible that someone wearing a similar outfit (which didn't really have any standout items- it seems the most distinctive, the hoody, couldn't really be seen) and around the same age etc was seen. There was an appeal for information near to me before for a different enquiry completely unrelated to Leah, but it is surprising how you recall the event, searching your mind for anyone who feasibly could have fitted that description and reporting it in case it helps, even if you aren't certain it was definitely them.

    It's really sad that there hasn't been any really notable developments. IMO, fairly unusually, there doesn't seem to be a most obvious scenario, all seem equally as unplausible. It just doesn't make sense, to vanish seemingly into thin air, on a busy route littered with CCTV, and for nought to be found or no confirmed sightings since.
     
  18. Woodburnbay

    Woodburnbay Well-Known Member

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    Was X related or known by a grooming gang-If x was in a relationship with LC, had one of gang met her?
    X wouldn't have to be in gang, but if he also had his suspicions he may have revealed them to Police.

    It would be at this point he could be helping police with enquiries and Police were already observing gang.

    At this stage, a watched gang of groomers, police would not want to reveal that they had suspicions of this, even to parents.

    Often unsolved cases are unsolved for what Police may consider "The greater good" In this case, catching a gang responsible for multiple disappearances.

    There has been reference to other disappearances in this and the wider area in the last few years.IMO
     
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  19. Woodburnbay

    Woodburnbay Well-Known Member

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    Why would police not have gained a warrant to check his phone-Sorry this is a disappearance / murder enquiry and at the very least it could prove his innocence or even guilt.
     
  20. Woodburnbay

    Woodburnbay Well-Known Member

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    If she had a second phone, on the evening of valentines when she turned her GSM off, why would she do that if she could have switched her phone off and used her second unknown phone to communicate with who she was meeting.
     
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