GUILTY UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #25

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by cybervampira, Feb 2, 2019.

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  1. MsMiniSleuth

    MsMiniSleuth Well-Known Member

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    So it was or WAS NOT PR cleaning his car, or someone else cleaning their car, or he had seen PR cleaning his car on another day.

    Sometimes witnesses are just not 100% reliable in their memory recall.
     


  2. C.greek

    C.greek Well-Known Member

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    I'd imagine quite a few rape victims would be left in dangerous environments? No idea about the statistics but if indeed PR left Libby in such a terrible state alive close to the river after having caused her serious bodily harm, shouldn't this be manslaughter?
     
  3. C.greek

    C.greek Well-Known Member

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    He recognised him as the man who was arrested and it occurred to him he had seen him in such a strange time (freezing cold) to be cleaning his car. This is what I get out of this but the way defence put it was to confuse the jury imo. Also we need to find the cctv mention directly from the police officer!!
     
  4. The screams where heard 150 yards north of the house on oak playing fields though sounds as though the attack was more closer to the light than the river
     
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  5. Inspector No Clueso

    Inspector No Clueso Active Member

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    I don't know if I've done this correctly as I have just signed up and can't see how to post other than post reply (sorry for ineptitude) but I decided to join you, as I have watched this from the start, so if I have replied to someone unintentionally, I just hope they are patient. My interest stems from the fact that my son was doing his post-grad at the time and living on Beresford near the OR end and prior to that had lived on Heathcote for 2 years so I know the streets well but not ORPF. Needless to say, he and his friends have all been deeply upset by this.
    For what it is worth and I'll say MOO now, I envisage a scenario where she simply lay there after this horrific violation totally unable to run towards the river or anywhere else. Dopey from the cold, befuddled from the drink and in shock from the assault how could the poor girl even start to process what had happened? Maybe the flight/escape response could be to fall asleep/ lose consciousness to make it all go away. And that is how he left her possibly closer to the river than he has stated as he took her as far from safety as he could.
    And maybe the reason he returned, having got himself reinflated by watching porn in the bath, was to rape her again as, in his mind, there was a good chance she was still lying where he left her.
    But he found her unresponsive and therefore unable to give him the reaction that he needs from his victims so he disposed of her and ended up having to relieve himself in the street.
    Sorry if I have made a mess of this post but I felt I wanted to join you now in the hope that tomorrow brings some justice.
     
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  6. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    How many rape victims are left right by a river in the dark? and who are extremely vulnerable and are struggling with walking etc?
    This is the problem for me ... if a woman was raped and she was not confused , disoriented, hypothermic, unable to walk without falling or swerving etc ...and making rational decisions id say exactly the same .. why would I think she would end up in the river? And immediately I would " be sure" he put her in there.

    Here though we have been shown lots of evidence of all of the above things in libby that night..and its the prosecution case that it was at the area of the park close to the river she was raped

    So in this particular case its not really relevant to say ..."how many rape victims happen to be found dead in the river"

    Regarding the manslaughter if he attacked and left her there...personally I think it would be ...but there has been a lot of logical discussion previously around this as if he left her alive after purely rape when does his level of responsibility end
     
  7. ChiCubs2016

    ChiCubs2016 Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to WS @Inspector No Clueso! Love your name!
    Edit- spelling
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  8. Lyall0814

    Lyall0814 Well-Known Member

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    If this was the case he still wouldn't deserve any benefit of the doubt. He chose to go out that night to stalk women (for three hours?). He then chose to stalk Libby. He then chose to be violent. When you've made that decision you deserve to be held responsible for the consequences of the events you have put in motion. He's not the victim of that night's events. I don't how see he deserves any consideration.

    Would you feel the same about the 7.5 minutes (plus 4.5) if he was a soldier, or fireman, or athlete?
    We don't know his exact level of fitness but he was definitely a lot fitter than most to be doing the job he was.
     
  9. C.greek

    C.greek Well-Known Member

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    Snipped for focus: we have also the evidence from an expert medic that she would be unable to walk because of hypothermia as you mention. So it would be pretty hard for her to move i'd imagine especially after such a terrifying ordeal. Jmo hence he put her in the river
     
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  10. Inspector No Clueso

    Inspector No Clueso Active Member

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    Thanks. I'm just glad it appeared where it was meant to and I didn't end up ordering a garden gnome on Amazon. I really shouldn't do technology at stupid o' clock when I have to be up at even stupider o' clock but thanks for the warm welcome and I will get better than this. Promise.
     
  11. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    He didn't actually say she wouldn't be able to walk ..he said she would worsen over time ...
    She was attacked only 10 min or so after she walked to his car ..part of this time would have been spent in a warmer car

    For me personally i can't say that 15 min or so after walking to a car she wasn't able to walk towards the river ...after all we know the rape was also likely quick
     
  12. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    I've not ever said he is not responsible for her death in some way or another ... but no matter how vile or perverted or even dangerous he might be ...the law still requires his level of involvement to be proven by the prosecution and classified correctly

    I feel no matter how fit a person is the fact that that persons car pulls up at 12 .11hrs and his car arrives back home at 12.22hrs I would have to consider that tight
     
  13. C.greek

    C.greek Well-Known Member

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    Temp differences don't help though in hypothermia(i mean from -2 to a warmish car and out again in -2). In any case what i wanted to say was that the rape must have been a terrible ordeal for her which wouldn't possibly leave her with the strength to stand up. We saw in cctv that already before the rape she needed help to stand up when she fell. Why all of a sudden would she be able to stand up on her own and walk to the river? Especially considering she was raped on top of all other things that were happening to her body because of alcohol and the cold?
     
  14. I know many in question are caught or seen returning to a crime scene but so soon, such short time after the assault, after a rape and knowing she screamed so loud it echoed across the fields, he himself fleeing so fast he was seen looking rushed and asif purposely not to turn back ..... doesnt sound like he left her alive to me just my opinion.
     
  15. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    We have no way of knowing if 15 mins later she was still able to walk or not though ..so remains a real possibility imo
     
  16. C.greek

    C.greek Well-Known Member

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    How about standing up though?
     
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  17. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    I agree to an extent but he would still be getting out the park as quick as possible if he had raped her and left
     
  18. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    Again we have no reason to think she could definitely not stand up
     
  19. C.greek

    C.greek Well-Known Member

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    We have the cctv evidence from before the rape and the statements of many witnesses by which we could infer she wasn't able to stand up on her own unless helped.
    ETA I am weaving this as I read and think more jmo
    ETA 2 I hope the jurors are doing the same!
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021

  20. I thought he was
    Parking at 12.11
    Back in car by 12.19
    Pulling out and turning left onto bev road 12.20 he then incates right.
    Hes only got to go down Cottingham road which his indicators say he did straight down (Newland Ave my opinion) onto Raglan st his address...done ...

    5 mins on a bicycle the roads looked empty that night to in the days its usually busy. So hopefully the jury will have been informed of the distance and the fact there was hardly any traffic that night.
     
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