GUILTY UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #25

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by cybervampira, Feb 2, 2019.

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  1. Challwood

    Challwood Well-Known Member

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    I don’t believe the poll is on what we feel the verdict will be, but rather what our own opinion on what we feel has been proven. My vote was for what I felt, not what I thought the jury would say.
     


  2. Steve2021

    Steve2021 Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather it was simply do you believe he did it, than either what do you think is proven or what will the jury decide.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
  3. Jenesaisquoi

    Jenesaisquoi Well-Known Member

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    Yes, my vote was what I believed based on the evidence that we had heard from the trial, being aware that there may be more evidence that we had not seen or heard yet. I reviewed my vote throughout the days. It has been useful to see the voting figures in general on polls because, like a discussion, they make us think about why a viewpoint may be different to our own.
     
  4. Pinkizzy

    Pinkizzy Well-Known Member

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    She didn't stay at home when the taxi driver left her there. She may not have stayed at home if Pawel had left her there.

    Do you remember when a witness saw Pawel cleaning the inside of his car after Libby's last sighting? If he was washing mud from inside of his car and the ground was frozen solid, where did the mud come from?
     
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  5. kate2931

    kate2931 Well-Known Member

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    what will happen Alyce? If they can’t reach a verdict, is it hung and then a re-trial ?
     
  6. Mommysleuth11

    Mommysleuth11 Well-Known Member

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    So 2 hours since the majority direction and still no verdict. This doesn't feel good, her family must be beside themselves.

    My only consoling feeling is that if he is convicted of the rape alone, of which I personally have no doubts on, the Judge will surely throw the book at him (did someone post maximum sentence 19 years to life imprisonment?), due to the aggravating factors and the fact she never returned home through either direct or indirect consequence of his actions.
    I don't believe he will be a free man for many many years, if ever but understandably this may not feel like enough for her family. All moo
     
    Tuvok, PitchforkRed, tedtink and 14 others like this.
  7. MsMiniSleuth

    MsMiniSleuth Well-Known Member

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    Taking the verdict after a majority direction
    If a jury returns after receiving a majority direction, the court clerk will ask the foreman if at least 10 of them (or 9 if there are only 10 jurors) have agreed upon their verdict; if the answer is yes, the foreman will be asked for the verdict.

    If the verdict is Guilty the foreman will be asked if that is ‘the verdict of you all or by a majority?’ If it is by a majority the next question is how many agreed and how many dissented?

    If, on the other hand, the verdict is Not Guilty the court clerk will not ask how many agreed or dissented.

    Retrial - What happens after a hung jury is discharged?
    When a hung jury has been discharged, the usual practice is for the defendant to be tried again by a different jury.

    The prosecution will usually be given 7 days to notify both the court and the defence if they wish to proceed for a second time.

    The reasons for being given this time include the opportunity to gain witness availability and consult with witnesses (who would have to give evidence for a second time) and also to consider if there are any fundamental weaknesses in the case that tend against asking for a retrial; for example, sometimes a prosecution witness whose evidence appeared watertight on paper might have been shown to be unreliable during cross-examination by the defence.

    If a jury are unable to agree following a second trial, the convention is for the prosecution not to seek a third trial but to offer no evidence (which results in a Not Guilty verdict). It will only be in exceptional cases that a third trial would be sought.

    Uncompleted trials
    When a problem occurs during a trial and the jury are discharged for reasons other than being unable to reach a verdict, this will not count as a first or second trial (as in a hung jury situation) for the purposes of the prosecution deciding whether or not to seek a retrial.

    Examples of situations in which a jury may be discharged (other than when they are unable to agree upon a verdict) are:

    • The prosecution or defence have inadvertently introduced evidence which the judge had previously ruled inadmissible and the judge takes the view that a fair trial with that jury is no longer possible;

    • A juror has improperly carried out research on a witness and informed fellow jurors of their discoveries;

    • Too many jurors have become ill during the case, or for other reasons are unable to continue, and there are insufficient jurors left to continue.
     
  8. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    The prosecution version gives us the guidance...they have put him at the rear of the park by the witness SA ... its not a case of choosing one sides version...its for the prosecution to prove his guilt. For me they have proven up to the point of rape at the river end of the park ...just because for me they haven't proved beyond that does not mean I have to go back to the starting point of Oak rd

    What do you feel the jury are struggling with ? Because obviously they are ..even taking into account the complexity of the case deliberations are very lengthy

    For example in April jones case ...4hrs
    Joanna Yates ..2 days
    Most cases are much quicker ...no way is this just carefully going through info ..they are struggling
     
  9. Becky53

    Becky53 Well-Known Member

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    Is this wrong too seven men and five women? I thought it was the other way around...

    The jury were sent out to decide whether Relowicz, 26, is guilty of the rape and murder of University of Hull student Libby Squire on Thursday last week.

    Now, after six days of deliberations at Sheffield Crown Court, the jury - made up of seven men and five women - seem no closer to reaching a verdict.

    Libby Squire murder trial: Why jury can reach a majority verdict
     
  10. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    This is so true regards the grave ...agree with all your thoughts on him being responsible
     
  11. Cherwell

    Cherwell Ice Cream

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    Did the witness mention mud?
     
  12. Officer Dibble

    Officer Dibble Well-Known Member

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    I was about to ask the same thing.
     
  13. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't find that a comfort if it were me. The man who murdered my child getting away with murder no matter how strict the sentence. IMO.

    With good behaviour he'd be out in time to do it again. 17 - 18 years.

    I can't honestly see where the doubt is.
     
  14. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    For me I wish there had been one more piece of evidence to close the deal
    Just some blood on his clothes ?
    Some Internet searches on bodies in rivers?
    Previous violence ?
    A liking for auto asphyxiation porn ?
    The sort of things in other cases that tip the balance
     
  15. kate2931

    kate2931 Well-Known Member

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    thank you
     
  16. Tortoise

    Tortoise Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you're right

    "the jury of seven women and five men"

    Libby Squire murder trial: Pawel Relowicz 'refused woman's advances'
     
  17. Alyce

    Alyce Well-Known Member

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    Yes, sadly there is no other choice - it will be a hung jury and - if CPS decide to - they will have another trial.:(
     
  18. Mommysleuth11

    Mommysleuth11 Well-Known Member

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    Just to add to this, a couple of cases I have followed on here recently Lyndsey Birbeck was within a couple of hours,
    Sarah Wellgreen around 3 days. Both seemed pretty complex cases with lots of evidence to consider, this does feel like a really awfully long time.
     
  19. Cherwell

    Cherwell Ice Cream

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    That's the outcome for many who are convicted of murder.
     
  20. Lyall0814

    Lyall0814 Well-Known Member

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    It might have been just one juror all along, we'll see. I think we'll know by 4 or thereabouts.
     
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