Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #10 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by cybervampira, Feb 2, 2019.

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  1. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    I think it's very difficult to judge height given the angle of the cctv and the fact in the best shot he is not stood exactly by the car. When he sits down in it to smoke I think he looks fairly ordinary and average.

    In the timeline somebody said he'd been there since around 11.49 from the ITV footage which said about 20 minutes. I imagine that was a figure ok'd by the police.

    They will have additional footage of him arriving and leaving the car which they haven't released for some reason but it is possible he could have been out of the car and towards the corner for up to ten minutes.

    I'm being thick again here but beyond the possibility of watching for late bus or, perhaps, running, I can't see anything there to bring him there at that time in that weather? It was bitterly cold remember. When she first went missing I'd assumed hypothermia.

    The first shot looks like he's returning from the corner and looking at it. He hasn't run and he doesn't do any cool down stretches so probably not a runner. Plus a ten minute run isn't worth it.

    So is there anything else in that direction?
     
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  2. alfiedug

    alfiedug Active Member

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    I kinda agree. She places her legs onto the passenger step and foursome reason comes back out. Before being put back in. In this pic pink is her leg and her head, Blue is her shoulder and a bit of skirt. Greet is the wheel but after this clip she comes back out of the car and gets replaced back in.
     

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  3. Joolz1975

    Joolz1975 Well-Known Member

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    Shops, takeaways etc...
     
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  4. Pinkizzy

    Pinkizzy Well-Known Member

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    I reckon that the chap throws a bag or something into the foot well and then his passenger çlimbs into the car
     
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  5. Spy Versus Spy

    Spy Versus Spy Well-Known Member

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    Studying this a couple of Weeks ago, I saw several contradictory things that changed each time or in each format I watched.

    The post regarding slo-mo creating diff images and shapes is important, as is the tendency of the mind to both auto-suggest ( see what you think you should or what you want to see) and to create frame correlation to create an understandable narrative from moving images.

    However....the one action that remains pretty constant for me is the one mentioned above in which the passenger seems in some way to either initially fall away from the passenger side when attempting to get in ,or to resist being 'helped' in.....
    At this point they are lifted, rather clumsily and hurridly ,by a left arm under both legs across the back of the knees and a right arm across the back/ under the arms. Scooped in.

    I think we have to assume/ Ive heard rumours/ imo/ a little bird told me/theoretically/(add your own terminology) that LE know that PR put/helped LS into his car at around this point in the narrative in this location and this is what we are seeing here
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  6. Joolz1975

    Joolz1975 Well-Known Member

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    I like all of this post.

    All makes sense to me.
     
  7. Strontium69

    Strontium69 Well-Known Member

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    I took a tour of the south stretch of the riverside path that passes the park and the pond, starting at the other end, Clough Road/Stoneferry Bridge, and moving North along the river to the Croda perimeter, and then into the park.



    (A) 0:00 The day before, I shot a quick video from the river bank (East) just off Stoneferry Bridge.
    4:23 Barmston Drain bridge on Clough Road
    4:30 Leaves Clough Road into the driveway that leads to the entrance gate to the allotments along the drain bank.
    4:59 The allotment fence extending right down to the waterline.
    (1) 5:07 The allotment entrance gate. I am still presuming the process to get a key is the same - put your name down with the council, and when a plot becomes available you then pay another few quid for a gate key. It's been about 10 years or more since I had a key for this allotment, so it is possible the process to obtain a key has changed since then, it could now be administered by the locals via an allotment committee, I don't know? It has 'expanded' since I had an allotment in there - not in size, but internally; I don't think there are ANY spare plots now, and they seem to have a much stronger community run place than before when it was just anonymous. There is a large well looked after communal area, and from people I know still in there it is an extremely tight knit fraternity in there.

    I would expect somebody trying to do something too suspicious in there, regardless if they were a familiar face or not, would be clocked by the regulars. (You aren't allowed to plant certain types of shrubs in there and have to rat on your neighbour if the plant them, they look out for forbidden plant seeds landing and taking root, the level of detail that allotment sight is managed on a day to day basis is down to almost, literally, granular!

    And like Croda, the allotment perimeter fence is always very well maintained. These guys are trying to KEEP RABBITS OUT of the allotment site, that is the level they are at with their boundary fence!

    (2) 5:58 Road to the left leads to the southern end of Oak Road/Croda entrance CCTV; video continues straight along Clough Road.

    8:08 Approaching Stoneferry Bridge

    (3) 8:43 Leaving Stoneferry Bridge via the gated footpath, down the steps.

    13:27 Opposite (nearly) from where I filmed (A)

    18:05 Some of the plots adjoining Croda are metal recycling yards, and have been there for years. Their fences are not as secure as Croda's... I have always assumed there was an element of thievery going on deep along this path, penetrating this boundary fence and steeling scrap metal. I guess also the amount they can actually carry away is pretty negligible, so the boundaries are not as well maintained, and the path is far less travelled, and far more overgrown, brambly and difficult to get down at all.

    18:30 Only when editing did I notice this yellow sticker at this break in the wall...

    (4) 23:55 The start of the Croda boundary

    25:06 There are doors and gates in the Croda boundary all along the riverside path. As with the rest of the boundary, they always look in good repair, with the shinyness of being well used and maintained.
    25:14 Also Croda will be bristling with CCTV inside that plant. I've not been able to determine any cameras that would be able to actually overlook this riverside path?

    NB - The camera kept losing audio for some reason...

    (5) 26:20

    (6) 26:55

    I stopped to get some views from the embankment, particularly of inside Croda, when I spotted the dinghy, at first I dismissed it as workers on the river defences further along, or just a couple of blokes in a boat, it didn't look like Police. Then I noticed the spaniel...

    28:06 "I had a quick chat with them about the case!" how pompous does that sound lol!

    I basically waved hello, they acknowledged back. I then asked, obviously this is about Libby, they slow momentarily, enough to engage with me for around a minute? Talked about how bad it is, people really upset about it, Police seem so sure she's in here somewhere, etc. I then asked if that was Charlie, he said yes, I told them he and the other dogs had a big set of fans cos of Send in the Dogs! I asked them about the banks, but they said they were only 'on the river', I took from that these guys weren't getting out of the boat, and I saw no other Police anywhere on my travels in the park that morning. I wished them luck...

    The 'look of resignation' I mentioned that I detected earlier on coppers that I have spoken to in the park... locals have been talking to these search teams a lot, there has been a massive engagement from the locals - obviously ANY community ANYWHERE is going to be concerned when anyone just disappears without a trace. There has been nothing but good will and positivity towards the coppers on the ground. I think they feel they are letting us down by not providing ANSWERS. I believe they think they have pretty much ZERO chance of her being alive.

    So when we wish them good luck, and they can actually feel the tension and anxiety washing off us when we talk to them, they want to deliver answers to us. But what is the best case scenario the Police are working to? Finding a body. The ONLY good news the Police can bring, is an answer to 'how' and possibly allow the family to then bury her and mourn her and try to move on.

    The best they can possibly give us is the worst case scenario.

    So I think that is what is behind this resignation I detect... they are really trying to find her, for us and the family, but they know she is dead.

    35:00 Talking about the integrity of the Croda perimter fence.

    I'm not a penetration tester so I'm using my own terms here; I talk about the boundary fence in three classes of weakness;
    * Phycsical weaknesses
    * Strategic weaknesses
    * Tactical weaknesses

    Might be clumsy terminolgy but this is what I mean by that;
    * Physical weakness - there are, as far as I can tell, after gong over the boundary practically inch by inch, NO PHYSICAL weaknesses. That means the fence is as close to 100% perfect as it can be. There are no missing or loose slats, no holes in the fence anywhere, it is flush to the ground the entire length, there are no holes in it. There is no possible 'penetration' of the fence. I found one possible sign of a historical repair.
    * Strategic weakness - if you were tasked with 'attacking' the Croda perimeter, the first place that would seem most obvious would be the section where the fence goes through the deep woods. It would seem to provide the best opportunities to be exploited. There are also other 'strategic' weakpoints where the Beresford Park fence abuts the Croda fence at half its height, providing an easy step up over the Croda fence, trees providing an exit back out.
    * Tactical weakness - can the strategic weakness be tactically exploited on the ground? As illustrated in the video, at certain points, trees could indeed provide easy access and exit routes, bypassing the 'prefect' fence.

    (7) 36:06

    (8) 36:45 The pond Bench

    (9) 41:10 The fallen tree

    The Three Park Benches; starting from the North
    (B1) 42:07

    (B2) 42:20

    (B3) 42:36

    I believe the photos taken at night of forensics inspecting a bench was one of these, though unlikely to be B1 as it is too surrounded by trees, and does not match the photo. I favour the bench being B2, because it seemed in the photos there was some very light scrub near the bench, whereas B3 is only surrounded by mown grass.

    (10) 43:20

    43:40 A 'weakpoint' in the fence where the park fence meets the Croda fence, providing a really easy step-up into Croda.

    (11) 47:02

    (12) 47:38 Outside the 'house in the park'

    (13) 47:50 - The other corner of the fence with an easy step-up due to the park fence joining it at half its height, similar to 43:20

    Also, the location of one of the 'drains' near Croda that Police were photographed examining.

    (14) 48:22 Tactical weak points in the fence with trees providing easy access over the Croda fence.

    (15) 50:02 Another drain riser, this one without a cover.

    (16) 51:22 The Southern end of Oak Road at the entrance to Croda, which provided the CCTV of the runner/walker/cyclist

    51:26 The CCTV is on the building on the right of the entrance road...

    (2) 52:08 Back to Clough road...
     

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  8. HopeForGoodNews

    HopeForGoodNews Well-Known Member

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  9. Spy Versus Spy

    Spy Versus Spy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Strontium

    Re the allotments...here is a link to a f.o.i request in mid '18 stating plot numbers, vacant plots, number of applicants on waiting list, expected wait time.

    For Oak Rd it was 70-1-15 - 1 to 12 mnth
    Waiting lists for allotments - a Freedom of Information request to Hull City Council
     
  10. NorthernSoul

    NorthernSoul Well-Known Member

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    Hi everyone. New poster and long-time lurker here! I have been following this all through the various threads. I have a few thoughts to throw into the conversation - sorry if it's a bit long!
    Re the comments on the passenger being "helped" into the car. I am wondering whether Libby could have been much drunker than we assume. I wonder whether it's possible she was on medication which added to this. Although she seems able to walk about outside the Welly, the fact is she was refused admittance. Most students will have been pre-drinking so I think she may have been very drunk to be refused. We know she fell over immediately after leaving the taxi (student witness). She then headed off down the street. Maybe she wanted to get something to eat or drink or did not even really know what she was doing? The students described her as mumbling incoherently. This of course would make her so vulnerable.
    Then we come to the older man who stopped. This is a student area & going off the student areas near me it would be normal to see students shouting/staggering/sitting about. Something was serious enough to make him stop. It could be suggested/what if Libby was lying in the road having fallen again? The police initially stated she was "near" the bench, not on it but then later it was stated she was on it. Possibly she was helped by grey beard onto the bench, semi-aware. This might explain her crying and how she was then fairly easily "put" into a car.
    Why was car guy parked up round the corner? I think this might have been a regular thing for him re the voyerism, just observing students. But also how about to buy/use weed? We believe him to be an unsavoury character so this would not surprise me and I have seen deals done on street corners in this sort of area. He seems to have had another life his wife was unaware of. I know this is all conjecture!
    If Libby did go to the park, why would she go there willingly? My suggestions: either completely disorientated or maybe she badly needed a wee and this gave him an opportunity to suggest going there? Or did he say let's have a smoke on the bench while we wait for your friends to come home? She would have to have been more sober in this scenario and he had persuaded her to stay warm in the car and wait for her friends. I don't know if Libby smoked but I know many students do without the knowledge of their family. Doesn't seem rational to get out of a warm car into the freezing cold and dark without a purpose.
    But how did Libby then apparently vanish without trace? I agree the river is a distinct possibility. The car does not seem to have revealed any information as far as we know other than that Libby was in it.
    I know many posters have dismissed the idea of an accomplice but I do think it is possible. Someone suggested nobody would involve others in this sort of crime but is this correct? In the grooming gang trials we hear that girls were taken to a house and made extremely drunk and then men came from all over to abuse them.It's hard to believe but some vile people do do things like this.
    So what if a text was sent to a "friend" - "see you down the park, something interesting." The friend came down, initially it all seemed fairly innocuous but then things took a turn and they then assisted in hiding what had gone on.I don't believe whatever happened was planned.
    Aha, you say - the record of this would be on P's phone.
    But what if he had a SECOND phone, what I believe they call a burner, often used by dealers and other criminals. If he had a secret life away from his wife which included taking pics I think this is very credible. But I don't know much about tech - if he had a burner phone and got rid of it could the police know about this through pings and if so can they then see any messages sent? I assume not, hence the use of burner phones.Of course he had several days to get rid of any second phone before he was arrested.
    I am not saying I personally believe any of this and as to what exactly happened I have no theory. It's just my thoughts and I wondered what others would think re these points? I was a student just like Libby in a Northern town and this case has just grabbed me - like all of you I am waiting and hoping for a resolution.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  11. Spy Versus Spy

    Spy Versus Spy Well-Known Member

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    Hi , Welcome .

    Always good to have fresh input.

    I feel there may be better scoring locations.

    If the Footballer is Ched Evans? his conviction was quashed and was found not guilty at a retrial in 2016 I believe. ( could be another footballer but just to be on the safe side )

    ETA : sorry for such seemingly functional response.....currently multitasking badly :)
     
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  12. Scorpiette

    Scorpiette Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I saw the passenger 'clicking' seatbelt into place. I only saw this when I watched it on my 43 inch Smart tv with CCTV slowed down. When I saw that, it made me think the person was voluntarily getting in, although maybe a bit incapacitated, and therefore was not forced in against their will.
     
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  13. Joolz1975

    Joolz1975 Well-Known Member

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    What other task you up to today?

    Edited...not stalking you but we all know men don't multi task (even badly)
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  14. truthfinder34

    truthfinder34 Well-Known Member

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  15. hels__bells

    hels__bells Member

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    She looks so happy and bubbly in that video. I hope they find her soon, for her family's sake. It must be heartbreaking for them.
     
  16. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    Libby has just popped up on the breaking news section of Sky News website
     
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  17. HayLouise

    HayLouise Law Student

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  18. HayLouise

    HayLouise Law Student

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    [​IMG]

    Police say they are increasingly concerned that missing student Libby Squire has been harmed.

    It comes as they released unseen pictures of the 21-year-old relaxing with friends at Hull University.

    In a statement, they said: "Libby's disappearance remains unexplained and we must increasingly consider she has come to harm."

    More follows...

    Police fear missing student Libby Squire has 'come to harm'
     
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  19. alfiedug

    alfiedug Active Member

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    Hi i would just like to say i have watched the cctv from Oak rd plenty of times now
     
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  20. HayLouise

    HayLouise Law Student

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