Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #15 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by cybervampira, Feb 2, 2019.

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  1. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I'd say any defence would Struggle to present a very vulnerable drunk and freezing cold young woman as someone that PR could claim had threatened or provoked him. He would Struggle to present a realistic justifiable sense of being seriously wronged. In grey Beard we have a witness to her vulnerable state just before she disappears. So threatening PR or provoking him couldn't happen
     
  2. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    Without a clear link beyond him taking her into the park there would be reasonable doubt imo

    I did jury service a few years back and the judge told us they no longer used the term beyond reasonable doubt ...he told us to convict we had to "be sure"
     
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  3. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

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    Can his other crimes even be mentioned to a UK jury, assuming he is ever charged?

    And proving who was the last person to see a missing person, who was outside and seen to be wandering aimlessly imo, can be difficult. P may be the last known person...but that does not make him the last person. And in any event, has that blurry video been stated to be P and L beyond doubt?
     
  4. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    Just add this was his way of explaining in layman's terms
     
  5. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    [/QUOTE]
    Was that Milly's murder or Amelie Delagrange I can't remember? He was an evil b@@@##d already serving life by the time he was charged with Milly's murder.

    I do recall his very brave partner played a huge part in bringing him to justice in both cases. And I think in helping police get him off the street on an unrelated charge before they had enough evidence to charge him with Amelie's murder. I think there were serious concerns he'd kill again but they didn't have enough to charge him. They didn't have enough at that point so she told him about the times he'd raped her and they used that. She was very brave.
     
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  6. Skigh

    Skigh Well-Known Member

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    I agree .The circumstantial evidence is very strong.
    I am hoping that there is forensic evidence on his clothing.
     
  7. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    Not the ones he's been charged with and will stand trial for. However lots of people have said they thought there would be far more charges. And various things have disappeared from MSM and sm.

    However as it stands he's going to stand trial for 12 distinct unrelated crimes. Of different types - burglary, voyeurism, offending public decency and receiving stolen goods.

    Obviously if you have a serial offender like PR allegedly is, I guess it makes financial sense to charge and try a group of similar offences. But I guess it also helps a jury to see a pattern of offending especially over a period of time.

    So although they can't mention previous offences or charges could they do similar with any charge relating to Libby?

    Maybe @Happylappy101 or anyone else could answer this - could they charge him with, for example, stalking person a, offening pubic decency seen by person b, sexually motivated burglary against c and a abduction and murder of Libby and try them together? So just like the 12 charges he's going to court on soon. More than just Libby. Especially if they relate in some way?
     
  8. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    Circumstantial evidence can make you sure though if there is enough of it. In this case the little circumstantial evidence we have is quite compelling. Not enough for a court of law by any means but I assume the police have far more. You couldn't have got PR from Spidercam because you'd need anpr to initially ID the cars owner. So maybe they have that.

    There was a lot of circumstantial evidence in Levi Belfield's conviction for Milly Dowler's murder and no forensics.

    I'm guessing from sisters comments they will have DNA linking him to Libby.

    We don't know what else police have or how far back they've gone to show a pattern. If one person genuinely heard screams how many others did? Did grey Beard see PR and that's what made him stop? Did the hammer, screwdriver and lipstick have PRs DNA on them? Did other witnesses see him with her? Have the Croda witnesses come forward.
     
  9. Skigh

    Skigh Well-Known Member

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    I am hoping ,knowing about his previous sexually deviant activities ,PR's wife may not be supportive of him and and give evidence against him.
    Perhaps clothes missing or being washed.
     
  10. Woollybear

    Woollybear Well-Known Member

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    This is a tad off piste but in skimming the recent threads I've noted that maybe the people who are posting from out of area, and asking, for instance, about direct access to the Humber, could maybe do with something like this (apologies in advance to the Hullensians who will no doubt guffaw at its naivety)

    The main roads into/out of Hull radiate like the spokes of a bike wheel - coming in from the west, Clive Sullivan way, which morphs into what used to be Hessle Road. Coming in from the north-west, Anlaby Road. The main north-south axis is Beverley Road (picked out in red). Leading off out to the north-east into the plain of Holderness is Holderness Road (the clue is in the title) and Hedon Road sets off due east past Hedon itself and eventually on to Spurn.

    The crucial area for the case is inside that red ring with the crossroads of Clough Road and Beverley Road at its centre. That ring includes Haworth Avenue, the bench, Libby's street, and the Oak Road playing fields.

    As far as the Humber waterfront is concerned, I've annotated the various access points and why, by and large, they are unsuitable. For my money, if Libby didn't float all the way down the River Hull and into the Humber, then the best bet would be the suggestion made by board member @winterhills who identified a place out at Paull which I have to say I was skeptical about at first but which draws me more and more - except that, for it to work:

    If he did it the same night it's a long drive past places like the ferry terminal and BP's chemical complex out at Saltend which would undoubtedly have CCTV, and he would have to have known about the place in advance and known that the tide would be in. Or he waited and did it another night, which is even less feasible.

    Anyway I offer this up in the hope it might be of some help to somebody. If not, just use it for origami practice.
     

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  11. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    I'm really hoping for something. Not just for Libby and those that loved her but for everyone else that might be at risk of he's released
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  12. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    Very, very useful to non Hullensians. Thanks.

    I'd assume he'd be caught on CCTV heading out towards Paull before he even got to the CCTV you've cited. Police haven't searched out that way at all have they?

    I know they they'd asked for CCTV and dashcam footage from around the areas where Libby was last seen within a certain time frame. Does anyone know whether CCTV was requested from anywhere else outside that area? Such so towards Paull?
     
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  13. kate2931

    kate2931 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you @Miss_French for expanding on the manslaughter issue, you said what I was thinking but couldn’t get into words :confused:

    It’s not a case that I think PR should only be tried for manslaughter, not at all. I believe his intent to harm was there the moment he clapped eyes on Libby. I was merely highlighting concern over the strong possibility he may not receive the harshest punishment due to the delay in charges, the time Libby has spent in water, possible lack of evidence after entering the park etc ...
    I’d have him hung, drawn & quartered but I’m concerned the bar is set too high for what LE currently have.
     
  14. kate2931

    kate2931 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to @jessie and @Miss_French for the CPS link. Really interesting, though can’t pretend to understand it all !
    So a ‘loss of control’ can be argued to reduce the offence to an act of voluntary manslaughter instead of murder. Remaining hopeful that he would have no chance with this line as the ‘Qualifying Trigger’ components just do not fit at all with Libby.
     

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  15. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

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    Jmo, I know it is not a great example, but when they charged Casey Anthony with a lot of different things, it backfired in the least expected way. Anyway, in the UK my guess is they charge only what and if they believe can be proven, i.e for “stalking” there would need to be proof he followed her rather than encountered her, etc...
     
  16. Winterbells

    Winterbells Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to do this. Just to clear up any confusion,
    I’m ‘Winterbells’ by the way, not ‘Winterhills’
     
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  17. Woollybear

    Woollybear Well-Known Member

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    Doh! I'm SIXTY-FOUR, you know!
     
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  18. Woollybear

    Woollybear Well-Known Member

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    I've no idea whether the police have looked at CCTV on the route from the potential crime scene out towards Paull, though yes, there will be "public" CCTV as well as that from the specific sites I mentioned. I doubt they have because as far as I can see only @Winterbells has taken the trouble to scour Google street view & pick it out. I remember when I were nobbut a lad being taken out to Paull - it was one of my Dad's Sunday runs out, and he also used to take me to Paull Air Show - and I always remember mud flats offshore. But then that was 40-odd years ago...
     
  19. Winterbells

    Winterbells Well-Known Member

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    lol, I feel your pain (I'm only a year behind).... just didn't want 'Winterhills' getting confused wherever he/she is.
     
  20. Winterbells

    Winterbells Well-Known Member

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    But would it really take that long to drive there and back on a winter's night? Google says it's only about 20mins from Oak Road playing fields by car to Town End Road.
    (edited loads sorry)
     
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