Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #15 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by cybervampira, Feb 2, 2019.

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  1. Woollybear

    Woollybear Well-Known Member

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    If she wasn't put directly into the Humber somehow, she must have floated all the way down the River Hull from ORPF to the confluence without being spotted.

    The Humber is tidal, that means it flows upstream as well as down. So although Paull is nearer to the mouth of the Humber, it strikes me that something put into the river at Paull could actually maybe go a long way upstream before finding its way into the deep water channel. I am open to correction on this, but I am also of the opinion that the deep water channel is nearer the south bank, and has been for a few years now. So anything put into the Humber at Paull is not in the deep water channel straight away.

    I poo-poohed this idea at first until Winterbells pointed out the area with deep water access. And the circumstantial evidence of the fishing site. All kudos to her. But I don't view it as "akin to fact"... the police are obviously concentrating on the theory that she floated down the River Hull, and the resources were, accordingly, concentrated there.

    Obviously, the police will know more than we do. Much more, I hope.
     
  2. Mommysleuth11

    Mommysleuth11 Well-Known Member

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    The body was spotted off the docks, actually, which is very close to the mouth of the river Hull, the police searches continued off Paull due to information about currents etc iirc.

    Paull was first mentioned as an alternative to St Andrews Quay, as a location accessable directly to the Humber, because some people dont believe the River Hull would be capable of carrying a body that far.
     
  3. Mommysleuth11

    Mommysleuth11 Well-Known Member

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    The picture of PR isnt actually at the Deep, the deep is in the background but hes on the opposite bank of the river Hull much closer to the Pier, i dont mean to split hairs but again that picture to me isnt photographic evidence that he visited the deep, more likely the pier, there are bars and food vendors around there and its quite a leisure area in its own right.

    Im also not sure what him visiting the Deep would have to do with Paull either, they arent particularly close not bear any relation to each other besides their waterfront location.
     
  4. Vermont24

    Vermont24 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. The Deep is in the city centre, close to shops, bars and homes - PR is stood very much in a public area. A picture taken in the general vicinity of it isn't really suggestive of much, and Paull is 7 miles away from that point.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  5. bos

    bos Well-Known Member

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    I remember thinking when Tabak’s defence asked for a second post mortem that the results of the original PM must have been damning. It was the first time I’d heard of a second PM being requested and it struck me as a bit desperate.
     
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  6. TheCasual

    TheCasual Well-Known Member

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    Not really kept with the thread. I had a operation on my thigh 12 days ago and been making hours up at work.

    I think about Libby and her family every day.

    Today I'm heading to Haworth Arms and Newland to watch the football. It's my first time down there since Libby went missing.

    Also in the last 6 weeks I've got really friendly with a 20 year old student who I met on the train from football away day in Nottingham.

    She's a middle class university student. It makes you realise how vulnerable they are.

    I thought they may of released Libby's body for the funeral by now.
     
  7. bluesntwos

    bluesntwos Member

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    LIBBY

    You do not know me, but i feel i know you.
    Over the weeks i have followed your story,
    I read the papers, listened to news on radio and tv,
    and learnt about this wonderful person called Libby Squire.
    When i first heard the news i didnt take much notice but now
    my heart is broken. For you,Your family,your many friends.
    all the people that loved you.
    I want to say sorry. The city of Hull,The city you fell in love with
    has let you down.
    You was a young and beautiful girl. your life tragicaly cut short,
    you did not deserve this.
    That fateful night has left a voidwhich will never be filled.
    I wish i was God or a time traveller. i would go back to watch over you,
    make sure you was safe but alas i am not.
    my heart is filled with unending sorrow


    RiP Libby Squire.
     

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  8. Vermont24

    Vermont24 Well-Known Member

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    The portrait with the blue background shown in the post above has caused quite a debate locally. It has now been removed, apparently at the request of the family.
     
  9. Joolz1975

    Joolz1975 Well-Known Member

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    Can see why.

    Obviously done with the beat intentions but looks nothing like her.
     
  10. Vermont24

    Vermont24 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that's been the general sentiment.
     
  11. chimpface

    chimpface Well-Known Member

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    It's akin to the Cristiano Ronaldo bust.
     
  12. Winterbells

    Winterbells Well-Known Member

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    I know why Paull was first mentioned, yes.

    And press reports reinforced reasons for theorising about Paull, such as :
    Hull: Police presence after 'body' spotted on Paull front
    Hull: Police presence after 'body' spotted on Paull front | Videos | Express.co.uk

    The search at Paull on Tuesday afternoon saw at least two police cars and a van close to the waterfront as boats were launched into the river.
    Police release new statement after 'body' seen in water

    Given that it would be hard to place a body directly into the water at the ferry terminal, certain areas on the coastline of Paull would seem to be feasible disposal points, theoretically speaking.
     
  13. Winterbells

    Winterbells Well-Known Member

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    Apologies for linking the Deep with Paull. Definitely got confused there.
    Certainly a lot of waterfront locations in Hull, though.
     
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  14. Woollybear

    Woollybear Well-Known Member

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    I was originally one of those people who didn't believe that the River Hull was capable of carrying the body that far without it being spotted by someone en route, though I have now shifted my stance a bit and I am trying to keep an open mind on the subject.

    I'm putting this up on here for several reasons. One, it will immediately show that I am a duffer at maths and physics, but then I have lived with that since failing O Level maths and dropping physics like a red hot brick in the third year. But I'm also posting it in the spirit of the Zen aphorism that says if you ask a question, you look like a fool for a moment, but if you don't ask, you remain a fool all your life... so bear with me.

    It's about the length of time which it was likely to take for an object to float from Oak Road Playing Fields to the confluence of the River Hull with the River Humber. Which is about 5 miles.

    Someone suggested in an earlier thread chucking a beach ball with an EPIRB tracker or similar into the water at Oak Road and then measuring how long it took to exit into the Humber. Of course there is no real correlation in weight and size, but perhaps there exist equations that say "if a body of mass m takes five days to do five miles then a body with mass m x 10 will take..." and so on. I have tried googling to see if I can find anything but to be honest, unless you know what you are looking for - what it's actually called - it's a complete mare's nest.

    I understand from previous postings that the human body first sinks, then after a while, rises and bobs/floats just about on/under the surface of the water. Libby went missing on 1st February and was found in the Humber on 20 March, IIRC, which is 48 days in the water. As the water would have been very cold at that time of year, one could reasonably assume a period of say, up to 7 days before the body floated and began to be moved by the currents and tides.

    One thing which would really help - perhaps police already have this - is the details of the rate of flow for the incoming and outgoing tides up the River Hull and also the underlying current flowing down the river as it drains the surrounding low-lying countryside.

    It seems to me that if it was possible to access these figures, it might then also be possible to estimate the time taken to travel the 5 mile distance which in turn could throw some light on the feasibility of this, and other, theories.

    If you assumed, for instance, that there was an underlying drainage current of say 0.25 mph always flowing down the River Hull, then this would modify the strength of the tides (I've just plucked that figure out at random, by the way)

    The tide doesn't come in all at once at a uniform rate. If you take 12 hours as being a tide, it starts off for about 3 hours at a lower speed, then you get the main bulk of it, then finally, as you approach full tide, it slows down again. So, with a tide of say, 1mph, again a figure I've just invented for illustration purposes, it's possible to construct a crude model that says the first three hours of the incoming tide moves upriver at 0.5mph, the next six hours at 1mph, then the last three before full tide back to 0.5mph again. But pushing against this is the underlying drainage flow, reducing those figures to 0.25mph, 0.75mph and 0.25mph respectively.

    Going the other way, the tide going out, down the river, speeds up because of the underlying current, and the first three hours would be 0.75mph, the main bulk of the tide at 1.25mph and the last three hours down to low tide at 0.75mph again.

    So. If we could find an equation which tells you how far a body with mass m is propelled along a distance d (which we all know already is 5 miles) then you could work out how many days it would have been likely to take to make that journey.

    Earlier on, I thought I had cracked it by trying to work out how far the distance was in a 24 hour period, so I added up the three periods of incoming tides, to give a total of 1.25mph, then the outgoing tides at 2.75mph, took one from the other, and assumed the body would move 1.50 miles down stream in one hour. Clearly this is far too fast, as if that were the case, Libby's body would have cleared the mouth of the Hull within a couple of days at most of rising to the surface, and in any case, I know, these aren't the real figures for the tide race anyway, just ones I made up to test my theory.

    And of course that would also assume that a body on the surface of the water would move at the same rate as the water itself, which ignores the effect of drag. Although only a young girl I would have imagined Libby would have weighed around 7 or 8 stone.

    At this point, I thought I would put my stupendous ignorance on public display, just on the offchance that one of the posters on this thread knows the real figures, works for the coastguard or the Humber Conservancy Board, or is a marine engineer with a degree in applied maths.
     
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  15. ChiCubs2016

    ChiCubs2016 Well-Known Member

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    I have always thought Libby was put in he river at the Oak Street park. It made the most sense to me. I do wonder how long it would take a body to travel from Oak Street to the mouth of the Hull. Like you indicate the tides play a big factor, the body sinking, bobbing and floating, plus I also wonder if the bends could play apart. For instance, the body could get caught in a bend only to be released with rougher water flow due to storms. I sure wish we had an expert in this field to help us out!
     
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  16. Woollybear

    Woollybear Well-Known Member

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    Yes, me too. Where is Jacques Cousteau when you need him! But seriously, the thing about the bends and the likelihood of the body becoming wedged temporarily was another reason why I was initially skeptical that it had floated 5 miles downstream. And apparently it turned out (as posted earlier in one of the previous Libby threads) that the police had been using drones to go up and down the river checking during the period before she turned up off Grimsby
     
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  17. Skigh

    Skigh Well-Known Member

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    A dummy was pulled out of the river
    Hull the other day.
    I wondered if it had been put in as an experiment by a websleuther!
     
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  18. Crazy Mama

    Crazy Mama Active Member

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    Until we know the condition of the body and if it was held down by anything or if any branches were caught on it and so on, we really cannot know. The frustrating thing is waiting for news of an arrest and PM results.
     
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  19. Crazy Mama

    Crazy Mama Active Member

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    That’s interesting. Perhaps LE are up to something.
     
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  20. Vermont24

    Vermont24 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully not.

    57602779_2391224701164567_7981209057526546432_n.png
     
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