Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #15 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by cybervampira, Feb 2, 2019.

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  1. Plod

    Plod Well-Known Member

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    No usually there are two post mortem - one initial and then a defence one of anyone charged. As no one charged, the prosecution will do a second one so that the eventual defence can’t say the first was wrong
     
  2. HongKongPhooey

    HongKongPhooey Well-Known Member

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  3. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

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    Jmo LE would not wait to charge P, if they had the evidence. People are scared, need to know for sure that if she was murdered, that the suspect has been identified. This delay means they are not able to make necessary connections and/or show cause and manner of death.
    Jmo.
     
  4. Plod

    Plod Well-Known Member

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    Not sure I agree - he’s locked up for now, until at least July. They’re probably making sure he can’t get out of any murder charge.
     
  5. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    They had enough forensics by the inquest to say they were investigating her death as homicide. They seemed sure enough to name PR in connection with Libby's case as well. Would they do that without anything?

    I can understand rushing to charge someone when the option is letting them back on to the street but knowing they're safely locked up until at least July is a different matter. The public safety element is taken care of.

    If PR is guilty we simply don't know how complicated his life was before his arrest. We don't know what factors might be relevant to getting a conviction - for example his internet history. We don't know how much more complicated forensics are when a body has been in water.

    All we can do is hope and remain careful. I hope for Libby and her loved ones that whoever did it gets locked up for a very long time
     
  6. Skigh

    Skigh Well-Known Member

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    I agree that they must have quite a lot of evidence linking PR to Libby and as he is locked up cannot harm any one else or need expensive surveillance to track him so they can take their time.
    Perhaps they hope to gain enough to push him into pleading guilty and so saving a lengthy trial.
    Though saying that I think if the charge is murder
    PR would go for manslaughter.
    I am just concerned that they perhaps have enough for abduction but are still with out a vital bit of
    evidence to prove murder.
    I hope the wait is for some advanced forensic results that will prove his guilt.
     
  7. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    Or prove premeditation perhaps? Or investigate other cases? Who knows. Going through a computer history for example, would take time


    My only experience of the legal system was a simple theft / fraud case against an elderly neighbour. It took 18 months from me discovering she'd been robbed by her home help to getting the home help charged. Very simple atm theft case. That was just a matter of going through bank statements and speaking to the fraudster who half admitted it. Further 6 months to a simple pleading guilty sentence. So I thought 2 years was normal. But I guess homicide is different
     
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  8. Skigh

    Skigh Well-Known Member

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    From all the cases I have read on here arrest and charges were very quick after a body had been found.But none of these people were already in prison.
    I think then about 7 months until a trial if pleading not guilty.
     
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  9. kate2931

    kate2931 Well-Known Member

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    How long it would take a body to reach the estuary from orpf had been fiercely discussed, also discussed was wether or not it’s even possible. I can’t remeber who found Carolyn Roberts for us here, was it enquirer ? Please forgive me if I’m wrong & it wasn’t even that long ago ! Posted some fascinating you tube lectures from her too ! Carolyn seems to have a particular skill set/niche on bodies in water & investigations so I emailed her just after Libby was found. It was apparent she hadn’t been contacted by LE at the time but who knows, hopefully she’s been involved since. Just to add, I think Libby entered the water at orpf. Carolyn’s reply as follows ...

    Edited to add, in my response to Carolyn’s email I made it clear there was a possibility Libby entered the water in the River Hull first and thanked her greatly for her very prompt response from Bangladesh.
     

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  10. Joolz1975

    Joolz1975 Well-Known Member

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    This seems like such a long time ago doesn't it!

    Have you seen the news about the young man that is believed to have fallen in a river in Durham (I think). His sister has got a group of volunteers walking the river bank looking for him.

    Her posts asking for help are pretty sad.
     
  11. Mommysleuth11

    Mommysleuth11 Well-Known Member

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    About 7 years ago, a young man named Stuart Gilson went missing after a night out, there were extensive searches and no trace was found of him after he crossed drypool bridge (much closer to the mouth of the river Hull) It was around 6 weeks before sadly his body washed up around ferriby/brough area iirc.
    I know Oak Road playing fields is around 3 miles upstream but i think a lot of 'us locals' have seen many people lost one way or another over the years (albeit usually closer to the town centre and mouth of the river) and if they were anywhere near that river they turn up later in the Humber, its like the Hull has a history of vanishing people.
     
  12. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree based on what we know as yet
     
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  13. jamjim

    jamjim Well-Known Member

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  14. jamjim

    jamjim Well-Known Member

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    Deleted - double post!
     
  15. bos

    bos Well-Known Member

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    A lot has been made of the police declaring Libby’s death as a homicide investigation after the PM.

    Rather than think there’s some quite obvious forensic evidence that indicates this, I think it could be quite likely that no definitive evidence was found to indicate homicide BUT by the same token, nothing was found to rule out homicide.

    Given what the police know about PR and his movements that night and that homicide can’t be ruled out, I think they’ve proceeded as though it is homicide.

    Investigations can rule things out as well as in and some PM specialised tests can take up to 12 weeks to come back
     
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  16. Skigh

    Skigh Well-Known Member

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    I do not think they would say homicide unless they had evidence to back this up.
     
  17. bos

    bos Well-Known Member

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    They have a man in custody previously accused of abduction.
    They believe that man was the last person to see Libby.
    Libby has turned up dead miles from where last seen.
    The PM can not rule out someone else was involved in her death (nor rule it in)
    The police investigate to see if someone else was involved in her death - it could be called a homicide investigation as an investigation doesn’t pre-suppose the answer. Although police may have strong suspicions it is homicide and who is responsible, they cannot selectively look for evidence that points that way, they must look at all evidence.

    There may have been categoric evidence that a third party was involved but I don’t buy that you would need that evidence to call it a homicide investigation.

    Who would LE have to show evidence to in order to be able to call it a homicide investigation?
     
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  18. EricaAmbrose1

    EricaAmbrose1 Well-Known Member

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    Did LE change the disapperance of Libby from abduction to kidnapping earlier or later in the investigation of Libbys disappearance? Before Libby was found.sadly.If so
    how significant was that wording?A worse charge?
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
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  19. EricaAmbrose1

    EricaAmbrose1 Well-Known Member

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  20. EricaAmbrose1

    EricaAmbrose1 Well-Known Member

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    @kate2931 it was myself and Vermont24 who found out about Carolyn. I found the brief YouTube clip Vermont 24 found the better more detailed lecture on You tube
    We both you and I Kate2931 contacted LE @Humberside .You took the brave first step contacting Carolyn Roberts and firwarding o her reply I believe.It was great she replied yo you. Hope she helping as these forensic expert types seem to be freelance not tied to one area or investigation by LE .
     
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