Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #15 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by cybervampira, Feb 2, 2019.

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  1. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    Why would they say homicide (and after the body was discovered but before the inquest 'potential homicide') and not that they're treating the death as suspicious?

    If homicide is neither definitively ruled in nor out surely the term used would be that they are treating the death as suspicious. It's a phrasing I've heard used many times before and it's more accurate. No matter how they're proceeding (and my opinion is they suspect homicide) and what they believe - wouldn't their language in public be more circumspect?


    After PRs arrest and first unrelated charge it was still abduction. I can't remember when exactly it changed to kidnapping but I remember it was well before Libby's body was found.

    I'm not clear on the significance in the change in wording either, but it was definitely a change.
     
  2. Plod

    Plod Well-Known Member

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    Never understood why they used the term homocide and not just murder...
     
  3. kate2931

    kate2931 Well-Known Member

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    I can’t quite believe it’s only been a matter of weeks, feels like months !
    I did briefly see his story in the news, was it on cctv him falling in ? So very sad, interesting he still hasn’t been found too.


    I do apologise Erica ! Sorry, my memory is shocking. Kudos to you and our trusty local Vermont. It would be fantastic if Carolyn is involved somehow. X
     
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  4. Skigh

    Skigh Well-Known Member

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    I agree.I can not think of any other case where the term homicide was used.
     
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  5. EricaAmbrose1

    EricaAmbrose1 Well-Known Member

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    @kate2931
    No need to apologies. You did amazingly good. Yourself and all the regular and all who contribute (all posters )are all doing a grand job on here keeping this Libby thread on the top page and with so many interesting comments & thoughts Most of all the compassion care and courtesy to one another shown with some humour to help lift the sadness felt for what could have happened to Libby.Many post make me tearful and proud of good in people.
    I can only quote or share news articles.I love learning from all the posts too.
    It would great if Carolyn was on the case as we speak.x
     
  6. kate2931

    kate2931 Well-Known Member

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    I second that Erica, the effort and commitment from posters here has been second to none and even I felt proud of our locals & Hull in the way they handled finding Libby, and I live in the north west. You’re absolutely right, Tear enducing posts mixed with hints of good old British humour have made these thread’s a good example of humanity and sluething. I know we feel at a loss that we can’t always directly help out, but merely talking about Libby and the case with likeminded others, at least I feel like I’m doing anything I can. There are some fantastic thoughts and brilliant sleuthing still going on here, and I still check in everyday to read them. I still think of Libby & her family numerous times a day, whilst remaining optimistic charges will come and I’m sure many other posters here share the same sentiments as us x
     
  7. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    I feel them using the term "homicide" in this case may indicate at the time of the opening of the inquest cause of death was unclear
    I feel it may be the circumstances around her disappearance that warrants a homicide investigation
     
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  8. bos

    bos Well-Known Member

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    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  9. LucyRocket

    LucyRocket Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry I can't provide any concrete cases to back this up, none spring to mind at this moment. It's very rare that we hear the term homicide in the UK. I can understand why that's throwing up much speculation and debate. The few times homicide has been used, is in situations where it's clear the deceased didn't die of their own actions or any natural occurrence, but it can't yet be proven whether their death was as a result of negligence or a deliberate act by another. So it would be expected that further investigations would lead to a finding of either murder or manslaughter, but at the current stage, which of these is unknown
     
  10. Skigh

    Skigh Well-Known Member

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    So if PR had taken Libby in his car and dropped her off anywhere except her own or a friend's house it could be negligence because of the fact she was drunk and it was a bitterly cold night.
     
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  11. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    It could be manslaughter if his intentions were to commit some sort of crime at the time
     
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  12. Cherwell

    Cherwell Ice Cream

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    No. Not the kind of 'negligence' that would leave someone open to a charge of manslaughter. Negligence in that context would be something like running a bus with faulty brakes leading to a fatal accident.
     
  13. Lincoln34

    Lincoln34 Member

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    Gross Negligence Manslaughter requires a duty of care , a breach of that duty and for the breach to be so bad as to justify a criminal conviction. The breach needs to be ‘ exceedingly bad’.
     
  14. bmacmillan1

    bmacmillan1 Well-Known Member

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    I believe LE is trying to draw him out of his den. Goading him into anger or whatever response they can get out of him to bring him out of hiding. I really don't think they have a clear suspect as yet. This woud be a change of tactics.
     
  15. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    I've been reading the guidelines and best practice procedures relating to coroners inquest
    The Coroner has a duty to ensure the inquest is carried out in a timely manner obviously taking into account police investigations also but still are bound to ensure unnecessary delays...
    They should also hold PIR hearings (pre inquest review ) where delays are expected in order to keep the family and public up to date in what is happening aswell as to ensure everything required is being done
    I'm wondering if the Coroner might hold a review hearing at some point soon ..especially with the requirement for a second PM looming and the release for burial where possible
    The guidelines say they must give at least 7 days notice for a review hearing

    Apologies if this already discussed but I found the info interesting
     
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  16. bos

    bos Well-Known Member

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    I think the 28 days was up last week for a coroner-instructed 2nd pm (although with Easter it may be shunted to this week).

    I think in the case of a police investigation, police are more likely to keep the family informed via the FLO rather than a formal PIR hearing.

    That said, I have been checking the Hull Coroners Court Listings but can find nothing related to Libby scheduled yet.

    “Timely” could be interpreted a number of ways...
     
  17. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    Yes I agree "timely" is a bit woolly..best practice guidelines say it should be completed in 6 months but again adds that circumstances can mean much longer

    I think it's more about making sure there are no unnecessary delays and keeping everything in check for the family
     
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  18. Plod

    Plod Well-Known Member

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    That cctv evidence of Haworth Road is most certainly him and her. He’s in the vicinity when she’s very drunk, and we know he has strange sexual behaviour. She’s ended up in the river, having certainly never been taken from the park. I reply can’t see why there would be another suspect?
     
  19. LucyRocket

    LucyRocket Well-Known Member

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    The coroner can't continue with the inquest now because the police have declared her death a homicide. So it will be adjourned, and will be unlikely to ever resume. There won't be any PIRs either because the coroner will no longer be responsible. We've still got 4 cases open with the coroner since June 2011!
     
  20. JosieJo

    JosieJo Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the clarification...so the inquest will only ever resume if no one charged ... how do they decide at what point to revert back to inquest?

    The cases going back to 2011 are they still adjourned as no one has ever been charged?
     
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