Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by cybervampira, Feb 2, 2019.
I thought in certain circumstances they could ? Though would not know if this would be the case here
He's been charged with 13 disparate offences ranging from burglary to flashing. I'd guess that the evidence for each one of those helps strengthen the evidence for the others in court. For example CCTV showing him commiting one means a witness statement with just a description of a similar squat guy commiting another is more likely. So it does look like more than one charge can be heard at one.
Lots of people have said they're surprised he hasn't been charged with more so I wonder if LE plan to subsequently charge him with lots of things alongside Libby? If they showed a pattern of behaving might it be easier to indicate premeditation? Depending on what those crimes were.
I do wonder if LE would have charged him with abduction if they hadn't had the luxury of being able to hold him on other things
I'd agree about looking about in certain areas, but if you don't hang around where there is passing footfall your flashing career will be pretty dull. I'm not suggesting they whip it out in the brightly lit bus stop I'm suggesting flashing would be near those places.
But now you've mentioned it perhaps Haworth street might serve as that type of location. It's a perfect student cut through.
However I'm still suspicious of the fact he moved from a studenty area to a more residential area on boxing day. He'd have known there were few students about and yet still struck lucky in finding women to flash.
He was also lucky to burgle houses with just what he seemed to like in.
the concensus on here is it is definately PR in spider cam, this is my opinion too. like others have already said his general stance does give it away. and apart from other cctv that LE will have. also his attire on the night is quite distinctive concidering it was freezing that night. baggy shorts, and quite a distinctive stripey top which LE may or may not have found. something his wife could identify as his?
as for the accomplice, i believe and still believe the key to all this is what happened in wellesly ?heathcote at 12.30. was that PR and his accomplice? i think that is quite possible. i never bought the screams as coming from a fox theory. imho that was libby.
Also the car he owns and the car in Spidercam. Those that have seen him in court are sure the gait and stance are his.
Whilst I'm not keen on MSM the story his sister gave and the way they presented it sounded authentic. It was an odd thing to say off the cuff for starters. Unless she'd been told about a crying girl why say it. Nothing before had mentioned crying and Spidercam was not in the public domain at that point. Nobody at that point would have necessarily have thought about her being in his car. It was specific to the case without needing to be. I wouldn't have expected any reference to the case unless PR had given her that info. I can only think he gave that info to explain something.
It was lacking in detail. It didn't say where PR took her. MSM did not fill in any gaps.
It lacked their usual taste for sensationalism.
I can't see how mistranslation would have changed its substance.
Libby has come to harm and whoever removed her from the bench has some agency in that given she was not seen again.
Regards screams (and foxes) I have always felt (if accurate reports) the park screams and running man are relevant..massive coincidence if not. If they were libby something started and finished very quickly
I'm suspicious of any witness that goes to the press because I'm never sure if it's attention seeking. I've also felt that something that quick would have meant her body was found earlier. Unless he returned.
But I don't believe in massive coincidences either so if accurate I agree it would be highly relevant and have started and finished quickly if PR was alone.
12.15 to 12.30 ish screams from Park and man running from Park.
There were two media reports of witnesses hearing screams from different locations. I remember thinking the timings meant it would have been difficult for both to he true. Didn't the Heathcote road report mention male voices plural rather than a single male voice.
12.30 ish screams and banging gate near Libby's home
In terms of timing - do the reports of screams and the Croda CCTV match up.
Hopefully other witnesses can confirm either of those
Because, perhaps in Catholic Poland, sex is felt to be something one does for the purpose of procreation, which they may have done with.
His facebook friends may have been in Poland. Did he post in English?
I am still not sure why, even if had friends, one might think he had an accomplice.
How was he lucky in thr houses he burgled?
He's been charged with crimes where he watches and observes, i don't think luck was a factor, he's a calculated stalker and alleged sex offender.
To be honest I thought that some-thing more complex was going on due to the time it is taking to charge PR, but now upon reflection, it is probably more simply the complexity involved in proving premeditation.
Winklepickers (pointy shoes) originate in Crackowes (shoes from Krakow, the old capital of Poland) and Poulaines (Polish style shoes) in the 15th century. Perhaps similar things are still popular in Poland.
Google street view of the town, Chełmża, in which PR was brought up, shoes that the men generally wear trainers. The closest I could find are the thinnish soled trainers worn by the guy on the right here
And this guy
But then, there is this
"As part of their ongoing investigation, police arrested a 24-year-old man yesterday, thought he is not thought to be the man in the CCTV footage."
From The Daily Mail via Cardgame's post
Incidentally, I thought that this guy (in 2012) looked a little bit like PR.
I agree. He's more than the average flasher.
He was quite prolific in the run up to Libby's disappearance. That's a lot of watching and observing. Surely he'd have been noticed hanging around not commiting a crime?
Unless he has and 'non criminal' loitering is forming part of a premeditation case?
It's speculation on my part but it did cross my mind that he might have a mate that did maintainance or something for a letting agency. Even if that mate just joked about what he'd seen in the various residences? A stalker has to have a starting point and he would be noticed in a place usually frequented by students
March 25th was the date of the opening inquest if what it states below is procedure then on 17th June there should be a mention hearing( as stated )with hopefully more public information . There must be enormous pressure to fit in with these dates. Budgets must be limited specialists have other work the uncertainty has to end sometime thinking of (Libbys parents) before cause of death for LS is determined.
'If there was a post mortem examination, we need to give time for the results of the PM and any microscope or blood analysis work to come in. We list a mention hearing for three months after the inquest is opened. This is not a hearing in court and no-one from the family needs to attend. It simply means that the Coroner and the Officer responsible for the case meet in the office to check on progress and for the Coroner to give any new instructions. Unless the case is particularly complex, we aim to set a date for the final hearing around 3 months after the mention hearing ie October 14th
It seems to open and shut, and yet complex, as the Police themselves say here:
Libby Squire detectives share update on homicide investigation
I can see how proving premeditation can be complex, but the police seem to speak as if they are not sure they have their man despite all the pointers.
I'd be surprised if he didn't have friends. Newish to the country and employed in a place with a high population of Polish workers. I would imagine they would gravitate towards each other initially and make friends through a shared situation. Likewise a new father. Another situation where you meet new full.
My parents arrived in the UK from Ireland decades ago. Initially they gravitated to other Irish arrivals. They went to the Irish hostel. Got contacts from other Irish people, there were Irish clubs to attend. And obviously, having come from a Catholic country, they met Irish people in the church. It is fairly common. Phenomenon.
There is also the internet and a plethora of unpleasant sites to meet vile people.
But it isn't the fact he probably had friends that made me consider an accomplice. It's the time LE are taking and the time taken to find Libby's body. Though that could also be a drive to prove premeditation.
Or they're not sure they have all their men. The pointers to PR appear very strong
that was a interpretation from the reporter writing the piece, not from LE they never said either way that it was or wasnt PR .
Regards the possibility of an accomplice...which I think is slim as there has been no indication at all ...though I do get anything is possible
Why would that stop a suspect being charged if there was good evidence? I've seen it many times where people get charged at different times?
Right. Get ready to pull this theory apart. What if it wasn’t PR in the car. What if he was doing his usual flashing/ loitering. What if someone else drove that vehicle? Picked her up dropped her off. Then PR saw her and then did something terrible resulting in her death? I know that’s way out there but we have been so fixated on the picking up seen in spidercam footage, what if that wasn’t actually where his involvement started? He could have been on foot initially then used the car later in the evening. A very long shot I know but going back to what Redout highlighted earlier about another 24 yr old who was not linked to investigation but ‘not thought to be the man in the footage’ seems odd. Did PR lie about picking her up knowing that someone else did (and drop of her off at home) to cover his back.
*goes into hiding and awaits incoming*
What would have lead the police to PR so quickly if it wasnt him on the CCTV?