UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #22

[jamjim]

12:28
What drove Relowicz to commit sex acts?

Mr Wright has referenced Relowicz's previous convictions for voyeurism and outraging public decency.

He puts it to the jury that Relowicz did not provide a good explantion for why he committed such acts.

He said: "You’re entitled to ask for an explanation about that - we asked and you may think none was forthcoming. Plenty was described about his ‘problem’ but also a refusal to explain what it really was.”

The prosecution says the offending was about “fear” and “letting these women know he was there and the offending was sexual.”

Mr Wright said: “It was that confrontation and knowing these women had seen him and was scared that kept him offending.

"It wasn’t enough to watch and steal their items - he had to let them know he was there and what he was doing. That, we suggest, is the true context of his previous convictions.

“Not just a ‘problem’ in an abstract sense - but what was driving him to offend.

“What was his purpose that evening [when Libby disappeared]?"

Libby Squire murder trial live updates as Relowicz defence concludes

 

[Bethan]

@Niner....Thank you & welcome back. Hope you make a speedy recovery.

 

[jamjim]

12:38
Relowicz 'no knight in shining armour'

Mr Wright tells the Jury he believes Relowicz drove around looking for a victim.

He said: “For three hours, his whole purpose was to cruise these streets looking for a victim. That’s the reality of what he was doing. Three hours, that bitterly cold night he was meant to be signed off work and his wife and children were at home.

“What’s driving this? For three hours he didn’t offend and didn’t find the right victim. I’m not inviting you to step into his mind, it’s impossible.

"He’s told you he has this insatiable problem. Three hours that’s what he was trying to do - to scratch that itch but he couldn’t because he couldn’t find someone to offend against.

“Even on his own evidence, after having sex with Libby Squire, he’s at home watching and again, masturbating on a street corner and on the corner of Raglan Street.

“This shows how insatiable his sexual appetite was on that evening and morning of February 1.

“That the man with that problem was able to switch it off and be a ‘knight in shining armour’ is a ridiculous proposition.”

Libby Squire murder trial live updates as Relowicz defence concludes

 

[Jarvis1969]

Another thing that I was thinking about, English was not his first language, he had been living on Hull for 5 years? So he would be used to the Hull dialect, Libby wasn't from Hull was she? So her dialect would be slightly different to someone from Hull, so how, not being an English speaker, is he the only one that was able to understand what she was saying that night - sorry not sure if this makes sense

 

[jamjim]

12:45
Relowicz 'hugging the shadows'

The jury is being shown again CCTV footage of Relowicz and Libby coming into contact with each other on Beverley Road.

Mr Wright said: “We suggest he stalks her, hugging the shadows, waiting for the opportunity to present itself before intercepting her, which he does as she steps into the darkness of the Endsleigh Centre.

“What passed between them we don’t know because he wouldn’t say and only he knows because she is dead.

Libby Squire murder trial live updates as Relowicz defence concludes

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

Another thing that I was thinking about, English was not his first language, he had been living on Hull for 5 years? So he would be used to the Hull dialect, Libby wasn't from Hull was she? So her dialect would be slightly different to someone from Hull, so how, not being an English speaker, is he the only one that was able to understand what she was saying that night - sorry not sure if this makes sense

I doubt very much he took any interest in even trying to understand what she was saying. What he says she said is all lies IMO to try and make himself look like a good honest family man just trying to help. Which we know was not the case at all. JMO

 

[Ruthbullock]

If the only other option was a dark secluded Park.... YES!

But as you said it wasn’t a dark park, SA also said it wasn’t dark. <modsnip>
I’m sure there is whole thesis on the psychology of which direction people would run which I’m now intrigued enough to read up more about <modsnip>

 

[mrazda71]

Thinking about his evidence (lie) that he thought about taking her to a police station - if his intentions were to help her, he could have taken her to his home, said to his wife, you call police or ambulance or he could have called 999 anonymously - said 'there's a young woman in a state on the floor, at (address/Road etc) she needs help... help would have come. He could have taken her to any student house (he knew where they all were) and said - help this girl.

We know he didn't intend to help for a single second.

Also, in reference to whether Polish law on rape is the same as ours and whether he'd understand that it was rape - he'd been here for 7? Years so long enough to know that our laws differ & ignorance of the law is no defence? ... I'm sure the very vast amount of Polish men, British men, any men would not just pick up a woman from the street in Libbys condition and do what he did.

 

[bos]

I’m catching up on this morning in a block; presumably Ryan Thom’s second statement(which appears not to have been reported) is one where he uses the word “screaming” otherwise there seems no point in the defence using his testimony?

 

[jamjim]

12:5
Far too many coincidences, prosecution claims.

Mr Wright outlines all the strange coincidences which led to Relowicz having sex with Libby.

He said: “Isn’t it a coincidence that this girl directed him to the playing fields he had been for 12 minutes earlier on in the evening to commit a sexual offence.

“That’s all her fault, he says, because of her bad directions and his ability to turn around his car.

“Everything you know about Libby Squire and her condition that night, cold, desperately upset, injured, wanting her mum, wanting what a child wants when they’re upset and wants comfort suddenly springs and wants sexual intercourse on that patch of grass and says not ‘It’s warm in the car let’s have sex in the back of it’ but ‘let me lie on the cold patch of grass on my back and let you have unprotected sex with me'.

“Is it just an innocent coincidence she does that with a man whose whole purpose was to commit a sexual offence that evening?"

Libby Squire murder trial live updates as Relowicz defence concludes

 

[mrjitty]

BBM. Based on this I think I could find him guilty of murder.

- He did subject her to an unlawful act that caused her death

- He intended to cause her serious harm

He attacked and then left a half dressed drunk girl in a freezing park in the middle of the night.

This wouldn't be murder due to a break in the chain of causation. She didn't die by being left in the park directly but by ending up in the river. The river is like a new supervening cause which he didn't directly intend.

I agree it could be manslaughter so his assault and leaving her there contributed to her death - he should have realised she could die alone in the freezing park - so more in the negligence direction

 

[jamjim]

13:0
Lies in police interview

Mr Wright pointed out the lies Relowicz told during his first police interviews.

He said: “According to the defendant, his case is that he did nothing wrong to Libby Squire that night.

"He knew because the police spelt it out that he was the last person to be seen alive. He knew the urgency of it and he blanked it and slept on it.

“In his interviews on February 6 and 7 - lie after lie after lie - he said he didn’t want to tell his wife he had been unfaithful.

"Did he say ‘I want to help but please don’t tell my wife?’ No. He lied and missed out in his evidence what is a lawful and consensual act of sexual activity.

“He said he didn’t want the police to know about his other offences but that doesn’t wash. They didn’t know about his other offences until the 9th.

"He never thought he would have to admit he had had sexual contact with her because he knew she wouldn’t walk into a police station and say he raped her because he knew she was dead in the river and he knew he was safe to say ‘nothing happened between us'."

Libby Squire murder trial live updates as Relowicz defence concludes

 

[jamjim]

13:03
Relowicz was 'setting up his story'

Mr Wright says Relowicz was “setting up his story” when he gave accounts to his friends.

He said: “Why bother telling them at all if you’re lying? He’s raising it. There he was - before any connection had been made to Libby Squire - lying to his friends, getting that cover story in early.

"Remember, he knows about that camera on Beverley Road and his car would get picked up on that. He knows she is never going to say anything different, we suggest.

“We suggest this is rape that would never be discovered because he knew she was dead. He said he didn’t admit his previous offences because he didn’t think the police could prove them. That is the mindset of Pawel Relowicz.”

Trial has broken for lunch.

Libby Squire murder trial live updates as Relowicz defence concludes

 

[Zazie]

Oh boy, I wouldn't like to be PR's defence lawyer. What do they have? That Libby was screaming anyway, therefore park screaming doesn't imply she was being murdered; nobody was alarmed by her appearance enough to call 999 (I assume this is to imply she was in a state where she could give consent); it was too dark in the park for reliable eye-witness accounts; and maybe PR didn't clean his car exactly when a neighbour said he did. That's all they've got, right?

 

[Cherwell]

I hadn't realised that Libby had already dropped her keys before heading to the Welly. I guess this explains why she didn't even attempt to get inside her house when the taxi dropped her off. She must have realised she'd lost her keys.

No, she dropped the keys in the garden of the house where people had tried to help her. The reporting is patchy, because they've left out any mention of that. Quite a few mistakes, eg
"None who saw her could not have known just what danger she was in that night" surely should be "None who saw her could have known just what danger she was in that night."
Goodness knows what else he's leaving out.

 

[Alyce]

I cannot imagine the strength it would take Libby's loved ones, to attend court today and sit opposite him ... Whatever the outcome of the trial - he IS the reason she is dead. He took her away from the relative safety (even drunk & hypothermic) of the busy street, when she was going in the direction of home and took her to the place where her life ended.
I don't believe in any God but, if he does I hope he knows that he's going to Hell.

I am not always so black and white with cases on here, but in this instance, that sentence sums it up for me.

I wish her parents so much strength and courage today.

 

[Tortoise]

Thinking about his evidence (lie) that he thought about taking her to a police station - if his intentions were to help her, he could have taken her to his home, said to his wife, you call police or ambulance or he could have called 999 anonymously - said 'there's a young woman in a state on the floor, at (address/Road etc) she needs help... help would have come. He could have taken her to any student house (he knew where they all were) and said - help this girl.

We know he didn't intend to help for a single second.

Also, in reference to whether Polish law on rape is the same as ours and whether he'd understand that it was rape - he'd been here for 7? Years so long enough to know that our laws differ & ignorance of the law is no defence? ... I'm sure the very vast amount of Polish men, British men, any men would not just pick up a woman from the street in Libbys condition and do what he did.

Oh so that's probably why they said no one else who saw Libby by the road contacted police to tell them that night. I was trying to work out what the relevance was.

 

[Cherwell]

Oh boy, I wouldn't like to be PR's defence lawyer. What do they have? That Libby was screaming anyway, therefore park screaming doesn't imply she was being murdered; nobody was alarmed by her appearance enough to call 999 (I assume this is to imply she was in a state where she could give consent); it was too dark in the park for reliable eye-witness accounts; and maybe PR didn't clean his car exactly when a neighbour said he did. That's all they've got, right?

Nobody called the police/ambulance because they would have seen that somebody was with her and assumed they were helping. The darts guy were there for about ten minutes, then there was PR
Then you have the "don't get involved" mindset as mentioned by the last witness. People do worry about getting drawn into trouble.

 

[Lyall0814]

Oh boy, I wouldn't like to be PR's defence lawyer. What do they have? That Libby was screaming anyway, therefore park screaming doesn't imply she was being murdered; nobody was alarmed by her appearance enough to call 999 (I assume this is to imply she was in a state where she could give consent); it was too dark in the park for reliable eye-witness accounts; and maybe PR didn't clean his car exactly when a neighbour said he did. That's all they've got, right?

The prosecutor has been reported to have asked jurors to "use their common sense", which always gets law students worked up. Many will say you don't do that if you think you're over the line with the evidence.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Not much doubt about what the judge thinks I reckon.

Agreed- he’s making it very clear and simple for the jury.