UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #4

[neteditor]

Well since you ask, I was just looking back at the agreed facts and this is stated:

'Angharad Williamson was found to have consumed a number of medications including:

• Gabapentin
  
  
• Lamotrigine
  
  
• Levetiracetam
  
  
• Fluoxetine
  
  
• Amitriptyline'

In a previous document, Williamson was described as the following: “Ms Williamson is very much her own person and knows to voice her concerns as required. She remains responsible for her own health and medication.

“She explained her medication is not a sleeping pill but a nerve stimulant to help her relax. She explains she’s been able to parent independently.”'
Prosecution closes cases in Logan Mwangi murder trial

Thank you so much, I was just looking for this! I was sure an antipsychotic was mentioned at one point, perhaps it was just in conversation. Of all of those, I believe amitriptyline is the one she must be referring to. I haven't personally taken it in a dose high enough to "knock me out" and don't know whether it can do that or not at higher doses?

Edit to add this link: It seems amitriptyline is given in low doses for insomnia, so I have to concur with you @tedtink I don't *think* what she was taking would knock her out. But everyone is different, so perhaps it could have that affect. That said, it still doesn't explain the curtains/lights and that alone make me doubt that part of her evidence (not whether or not the drugs knocked her out).

Amitriptyline for sleep, is it a bad idea?

 

[Spoony]

this is a good timeline re the lights and cctv activity -

12.20am: Williamson accesses the Samsung One Home app

12.25: Williamson accesses Facebook app

12.29am: Williamson watches YouTube video

12.36am: Logan’s bedroom light comes on

12.38am: Light goes off

12.41am: Logan’s bedroom light comes on

12.42am: Light goes off

12.46am: Williamson accesses YouTube

12.51am: Williamson watches YouTube video entitled “Spoon is used to remove man’s cyst… Dr Pimple Popper”

12.52.am: Williamson accesses app management notification

1.10am: Williamson accesses Facebook

1.17am: Williamson watches a series of YouTube videos entitled “Large black head abstraction”, “You have never seen ice cream cake made like this”

1.19am: Williamson watches YouTube video “Professional make-up artist, how to look beautiful”.

1.20am: Williamson watches YouTube videos “Not your average BMW E38” and “Viral shorts”

1.21am: Logan’s bedroom light comes on and off

1.22am: Williamson accesses Samsung One Home app

1.23am: Williamson accesses YouTube

1.24am: Williamson watches YouTube video “Conjoined sister born as one now thriving as two”

1.29am: Williamson watches YouTube video “My twin is only four foot three, born different”

1.31am: Williamson watches YouTube video “German lady wants a nose job to look African”

1.40am: Williamson watches YouTube video “Three friends Simon wrong in powerful operatic” and a “Dr Pimple Popper” video

1.41am: Williams watches YouTube video “The cutting and removal and cleaning big long toe nail and various other videos.

1.49am: Light comes on in Logan’s bedroom

1.50am: Light goes off in Logan’s bedroom

2.08am: Light comes on in Logan’s bedroom

2.10am: Light goes off

2.14am: Williamson accesses YouTube.

2.20am: Light comes on in Logan’s bedroom

2.21am: Light goes off

2.22am: Light comes on in Logan’s bedroom

2.24am: Williamson accesses Samsung One Home app

2.26am: Access Samsung Android dialler app

2.43am, John Cole and the youth defendant are seen walking up the side path to 5 Lower Llansantffraid. Crown says Cole is carrying Logan’s body.

List of YouTube videos watched the night boy was allegedly murdered

Thank you for fitting it all together like that. It really does seem like biding time in between turning the light on to see if LM's dead yet.

 

[Moll]

Now we know it definitely wasn't the air fryer grease, as AW had previously suspected.

Don't get me wrong, they're wonderful machines, but...................

Did she really? This is one of the many things I've forgotten!

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Well since you ask, I was just looking back at the agreed facts and this is stated:

'Angharad Williamson was found to have consumed a number of medications including:

• Gabapentin
  
  
• Lamotrigine
  
  
• Levetiracetam
  
  
• Fluoxetine
  
  
• Amitriptyline'

In a previous document, Williamson was described as the following: “Ms Williamson is very much her own person and knows to voice her concerns as required. She remains responsible for her own health and medication.

“She explained her medication is not a sleeping pill but a nerve stimulant to help her relax. She explains she’s been able to parent independently.”'
Prosecution closes cases in Logan Mwangi murder trial

Interesting combo, according to the NHS website. Anti epilepsy and anti depressants but they’re all flagged in the medications that may not mix well category!

I wonder if this is why it says she is responsible for her own meds.

 

[Skigh]

I wonder if she orders her medication online or has a 'friend' who can obtain it for her.

 

[tedtink]

Interesting combo, according to the NHS website. Anti epilepsy and anti depressants but they’re all flagged in the medications that may not mix well category!

I wonder if this is why it says she is responsible for her own meds.

Yes, but it looks like they more likely to induce seizures if anything and perhaps not 'knock her out'.
I'm not a Doc but going by this..........

Who knows, but I still doubt she was asleep that night. MOO

Antidepressants

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Yes, but it looks like they more likely to induce seizures if anything and perhaps not make her more drowsy.
I'm not a Doc but going by this..........

Who knows, but I still doubt she was asleep that night.

Antidepressants

Also I read in side effects that the sleepy side effect should wear off as the person gets used to them.

 

[tedtink]

Also I read in side effects that the sleepy side effect should wear off as the person gets used to them.

They do , and if anything, whilst they act as a relaxant when going to sleep, the worst side effect for many users is actually not being able to get their heads off the pillow or get up in the morning.

Either way there's a contradiction, AW said she was asleep and 'knocked out' by her meds but also said.............

“She explained her medication is not a sleeping pill but a nerve stimulant to help her relax. She explains she’s been able to parent independently.”'
Prosecution closes cases in Logan Mwangi murder trial

 

[Little Nicki]

As someone who has been prescribed amitriptyline by my GP for the past 10 years (doses between 25g to 100g per day, prescribed 'off script' for Cyclic Vomiting Syndrome) I can confirm that it does not knock you out. It does slightly help with nodding off, but only after a few hrs. I take my meds at 8pm but I'm rarely in bed before midnight.

Also, when I have struggled with my metal health in the past, and needed anti depressants, I had to come off of my Amitriptyline before my GP would prescribe anti depressants as they do not work well together.

 

[Cherwell]

Mr Elias asked about the van stopping and asked her if she saw it. Williamson said: “Don’t talk to me like I’m stupid, I did see it. I was there.”

Ooooh, stroppy.
The prosecution is going to tear her to shreds.

I'm pleased to see that she's accused Y. That might have some repercussions.

One other thing. She hasn't had any "seizures" yet. I'm wondering if she doesn't dare in case it's discovered that it's just pretence.

 

[tedtink]

"Ms Williamson was said she did not immediately tell the police about the alleged assault on the 29 July because she was "scared and ashamed".

She added that if she believed Cole and the teenager had "done that much damage" she would have taken Logan to hospital, adding: "His injuries were horrific - you do not get that from two punches."

Logan Mwangi: Murder-accused mum too 'vulnerable' to get help

 

[Sooty]

Does anyone else wonder whether it was the first occasion of the youth and JC ‘working together’ in an assault, and if so, why? (that particular time, and that intensity). Why did JC involve the youth at all? I’m sure he was more than capable of dealing with a five year old. MOO

ETA

I am referring to the assault where JC instructs Y to ‘sweep’ him if he flinches at JC again, detailed in AW testimony.

 

[Jay_Tec]

Well since you ask, I was just looking back at the agreed facts and this is stated:

'Angharad Williamson was found to have consumed a number of medications including:

• Gabapentin
  
  
• Lamotrigine
  
  
• Levetiracetam
  
  
• Fluoxetine
  
  
• Amitriptyline'

In a previous document, Williamson was described as the following: “Ms Williamson is very much her own person and knows to voice her concerns as required. She remains responsible for her own health and medication.

“She explained her medication is not a sleeping pill but a nerve stimulant to help her relax. She explains she’s been able to parent independently.”'
Prosecution closes cases in Logan Mwangi murder trial

Were those statements made by Social Services or Mental Health team I wonder ?

The first sentence, 'remains responsible' would be the sort of thing mental health services would state to indicate that someone is not sectioned or ordered to be medicated against their own wishes.

The second sounds more like something social services would say. As I'm pretty sure any psychiatrist would point out that's a lot of sedating medication being layered up there.

 

[Overthinker77]

I don’t believe the doctors would prescribe any sleepers to AW as she had two children 5 & under..does anyone know if the youth will give evidence or is he exempt due to his age?

 

[Cherwell]

Does anyone else wonder whether it was the first occasion of the youth and JC ‘working together’ in an assault, and if so, why? (that particular time, and that intensity). Why did JC involve the youth at all? I’m sure he was more than capable of dealing with a five year old. MOO

I don't picture them "working together". I imagine Y seeing JC periodically and casually abusing Logan out of impatience and dislike. Y sees it as permission for him to do likewise, but he does it without restraint in a sustained attack - for fun.

 

[Jay_Tec]

this is a good timeline re the lights and cctv activity -

12.20am: Williamson accesses the Samsung One Home app

12.25: Williamson accesses Facebook app

12.29am: Williamson watches YouTube video

12.36am: Logan’s bedroom light comes on

12.38am: Light goes off

12.41am: Logan’s bedroom light comes on

12.42am: Light goes off

12.46am: Williamson accesses YouTube

12.51am: Williamson watches YouTube video entitled “Spoon is used to remove man’s cyst… Dr Pimple Popper”

12.52.am: Williamson accesses app management notification

1.10am: Williamson accesses Facebook

1.17am: Williamson watches a series of YouTube videos entitled “Large black head abstraction”, “You have never seen ice cream cake made like this”

1.19am: Williamson watches YouTube video “Professional make-up artist, how to look beautiful”.

1.20am: Williamson watches YouTube videos “Not your average BMW E38” and “Viral shorts”

1.21am: Logan’s bedroom light comes on and off

1.22am: Williamson accesses Samsung One Home app

1.23am: Williamson accesses YouTube

1.24am: Williamson watches YouTube video “Conjoined sister born as one now thriving as two”

1.29am: Williamson watches YouTube video “My twin is only four foot three, born different”

1.31am: Williamson watches YouTube video “German lady wants a nose job to look African”

1.40am: Williamson watches YouTube video “Three friends Simon wrong in powerful operatic” and a “Dr Pimple Popper” video

1.41am: Williams watches YouTube video “The cutting and removal and cleaning big long toe nail and various other videos.

1.49am: Light comes on in Logan’s bedroom

1.50am: Light goes off in Logan’s bedroom

2.08am: Light comes on in Logan’s bedroom

2.10am: Light goes off

2.14am: Williamson accesses YouTube.

2.20am: Light comes on in Logan’s bedroom

2.21am: Light goes off

2.22am: Light comes on in Logan’s bedroom

2.24am: Williamson accesses Samsung One Home app

2.26am: Access Samsung Android dialler app

2.43am, John Cole and the youth defendant are seen walking up the side path to 5 Lower Llansantffraid. Crown says Cole is carrying Logan’s body.

List of YouTube videos watched the night boy was allegedly murdered

Thank you for this list. Looks very much like the person watching youtube videos was nipping in the room to check if Logan was still breathing. Passing time in between checks with videos. Obviously must have been around the 02:20 mark that Logan was no longer breathing... but by 02:43 'the cover up plan' was being conducted.

How could anyone prove that it wasn't the Youth callously sitting with AW's phone all night ? Maybe under instruction from JC ? Ready to active the plan ?

 

[Sooty]

Thank you for this list. Looks very much like the person watching youtube videos was nipping in the room to check if Logan was still breathing. Passing time in between checks with videos. Obviously must have been around the 02:20 mark that Logan was no longer breathing... but by 02:43 'the cover up plan' was being conducted.

How could anyone prove that it wasn't the Youth callously sitting with AW's phone all night ? Maybe under instruction from JC ? Ready to active the plan ?

For what it’s worth, my opinion, is that that list could well be JC and AW watching you tube etc together. The subjects seem to reflect their interests - cars, ingrown toenails, beauty, Facebook, pimple popper etc.
JMO

 

[Dotta]

would the cctv not have picked someone else up?

Besides, to have an accomplice, JC would have needed to call somebody, or gone to fetch somebody.
Cctv didn't register anybody coming into the house or JC leaving - except carrying dead Logan.
The Police must have checked all their phones either.

 

[Jay_Tec]

Does anyone else wonder whether it was the first occasion of the youth and JC ‘working together’ in an assault, and if so, why? (that particular time, and that intensity). Why did JC involve the youth at all? I’m sure he was more than capable of dealing with a five year old. MOO

I can see it in terms of if JC had somehow snapped or lost the ability to any longer care what becomes of him. Then used the Youth as a subordinate. At that point it would have literally been an execution.

Since JC has allegedly kept his temper and changed his ways all these years, then maybe it's more likely to have been the Youth.

Why has there been no discussion of them being under the influence of substances in all this ? Plenty of adults and youths use stimulant drugs and alone or combined with alcohol they can result in carnage. Or steroids etc ? Are we supposed to believe they lived like teetotallers these antisocially behaved pair ?

 

[neteditor]

I can see it in terms of if JC had somehow snapped or lost the ability to any longer care what becomes of him. Then used the Youth as a subordinate. At that point it would have literally been an execution.

Since JC has allegedly kept his temper and changed his ways all these years, then maybe it's more likely to have been the Youth.

Why has there been no discussion of them being under the influence of substances in all this ? Plenty of adults and youths use stimulant drugs and alone or combined with alcohol they can result in carnage. Or steroids etc ? Are we supposed to believe they lived like teetotallers these antisocially behaved pair ?

Presumably, because there's no evidence to show that.