UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #4

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Jay_Tec

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I don’t believe the doctors would prescribe any sleepers to AW as she had two children 5 & under..does anyone know if the youth will give evidence or is he exempt due to his age?

I would question why anyone professional would prescribe such layered up medication for ailments that are not tested or proven and why any pharmacy would issue it. My pharmacist recently wouldn't allow me to purchase ibuprofen on the grounds that it's not great on the stomach combined with a prescribed medication - a bit eagle eyed of her, I thought!
 

tedtink

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AW said previously that JC was hitting LM and she was dealing with it in her own way.
The defence are trying to suggest coercive control and DV yet there has been only one possible incident (throat grab) that could suggest violence towards AW.

Thousands of women and men and children suffer at the hands of their partners every year, yet there is always usually one episode that is 'the last straw' before they take a stand against the abuse, no matter how scared or intimidated they feel.
Hundreds DO escape their violent partners, so I think sometimes we do a disservice to those who do escape, by thinking AW was under JC's spell.

AW quickly took a stand against her ex for violence that happened to her.

After saying that JC had been violent to LM previously and having called the Police to say the Youth had pushed LM down the stairs, she also witnessed the violent punches to his stomach, clearly this type of violence towards her son did not merit a 'last straw' moment.

Anyone who witnesses such violence to a child would know the potential damage it could have caused, she put herself first IMO before the needs of LM, most probably for months.

She is, at least, from what I've heard so far, guilty of causing or allowing LM's death.

MOO.
 
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Overthinker77

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The light though after JC & the youth went the river..how is she going to get out of that..she’s already tried by saying the air fryer,back light outside ect..if it wasn’t her why isn’t she protesting she’s still asleep then..she’s not she’s trying to make excuses because it was defo her..it was AW on the phone I reckon as it was her videos that she’s always watched in the past unless JC or the youth has set her up just like that monster that killed baby Star she moved the sanitary items of Stars so called mother to implicate her..AW & JC aren’t as clever & covered every thing like they had hoped but they have been proved to be liars,conniving,manipulative..100% evil..they had 3 hours+to come up with the story before they phoned the police..that’s a longtime!
 

Moll

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Presumably, because there's no evidence to show that.
Yes. But that reminds me, the bit before AW's meds in the agreed facts said:
'The court is told about toxicology results.

Logan was found to have ingested paracetamol at therapeutic levels. There was no evidence he had consumed alcohol or drugs

John Cole had an insufficient blood sample for analysis.'

Prosecution closes cases in Logan Mwangi murder trial

What does that mean, about JC? And do we not get to hear about the youth because of his age?
 

tedtink

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The light though after JC & the youth went the river..how is she going to get out of that..she’s already tried by saying the air fryer,back light outside ect..if it wasn’t her why isn’t she protesting she’s still asleep then..she’s not she’s trying to make excuses because it was defo her..it was AW on the phone I reckon as it was her videos that she’s always watched in the past unless JC or the youth has set her up just like that monster that killed baby Star she moved the sanitary items of Stars so called mother to implicate her..AW & JC aren’t as clever & covered every thing like they had hoped but they have been proved to be liars,conniving,manipulative..100% evil..they had 3 hours+to come up with the story before they phoned the police..that’s a longtime!

Sleepwalking probably.
 

Jay_Tec

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Presumably, because there's no evidence to show that.

I guess, but personally I found it a bit odd that JC's toxicology was just written off as being 'not enough blood' and that was that.

I suppose the police will have done their own background and character checks in the community and will 'know' if either JC or the Youth were either medicated or known for using substances and / or drinking. Often such volatile erratic behaviour has substances somewhere in the mix.
 

neteditor

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AW said previously that JC was hitting LM and she was dealing with it in her own way.
The defence are trying to suggest coercive control and DV yet there has been only one possible incident (throat grab) that could suggest violence towards AW.

Thousands of women and men and children suffer at the hands of their partners every year, yet there is always usually one episode that is 'the last straw' before they take a stand against the abuse, no matter how scared or intimidated they feel.
Hundreds DO escape their violent partners, so I think sometimes we do a disservice to those who do escape, by thinking AW had to stay.

AW took a stand against her ex for violence that happened to her.

After saying that JC had been violent to LM previously and having called the Police to say the Youth had pushed LM down the stairs, she also witnessed the violent punches to his stomach, clearly this type of violence towards her son did not merit a 'last straw' moment.

Anyone who witnesses such violence to a child would know the potential damage it could have caused, she put herself first IMO before the needs of LM, most probably for months.

She is, at least, from what I've heard so far, guilty of causing or allowing LM's death.

MOO.

That bit, I agree with.
 

Jay_Tec

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Yes. But that reminds me, the bit before AW's meds in the agreed facts said:
'The court is told about toxicology results.

Logan was found to have ingested paracetamol at therapeutic levels. There was no evidence he had consumed alcohol or drugs

John Cole had an insufficient blood sample for analysis.'

Prosecution closes cases in Logan Mwangi murder trial

What does that mean, about JC? And do we not get to hear about the youth because of his age?

I am baffled by this. If I was prosecuting such a crime, I'd be demanding follow up tests anyhow, fat sample, nail sample, or hair strand analysis.

Plus, as far as I know all people admitted to remand nowadays are 'pee tested' for street drugs.

Maybe prosecutors see little value in pushing for drug use evidence as it lowers culpability?
 

Skigh

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I do not believe AW did not know how Logan injured his arm when it happened. What prompted her to phone the police months later ,I am not sure about.

She was complicit in the abuse being systematically conflicted upon Logan. She also must have known he was seriously injured and needed urgent medical help.
 
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tedtink

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I do not believe AW did not know how Logan injured his arm when it happened. What prompted her to phone the police months later ,I am not sure about.

She was complicit it the abuse being systematically conflicted upon Logan. She also must have known he was seriously injured and needed urgent medical help.

Technically, would that constitute murder too, out of interest?
I'm not really up to speed with the complexities of that charge.
 

JosieJo

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I'm increasingly convinced that JC and possibly the youth also seriously assaulted logan and she is playing down the severity to try and save her own skin.
I think she knew how sick and injured he was and out of fear , stupid loyalty to Cole or her wanting to keep Cole (who knows which or all 3) ..put her child to bed gave him calpol and hoped and prayed for a miraculous outcome.
I think JC murdered him and AW allowed his death...jmo at this time ..I've no idea how it will go with the youth.
 

neteditor

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I guess, but personally I found it a bit odd that JC's toxicology was just written off as being 'not enough blood' and that was that.

I suppose the police will have done their own background and character checks in the community and will 'know' if either JC or the Youth were either medicated or known for using substances and / or drinking. Often such volatile erratic behaviour has substances somewhere in the mix.

Ah yes I'd forgotten the "not enough blood" detail. It's very odd. Do you happen to know if they draw blood with needles or do they do one of those spot tests on a bit of paper? I could see the latter being problematic without necessarily being obviously so before it's being scientifically tested.
 

Alicethroughtheglass

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Ah yes I'd forgotten the "not enough blood" detail. It's very odd. Do you happen to know if they draw blood with needles or do they do one of those spot tests on a bit of paper? I could see the latter being problematic without necessarily being obviously so before it's being scientifically tested.
Probably normal venepuncture, sample denied by lab or something and not enough nurses to redo his sample in time. Something simple like that I would imagine.
 

neteditor

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I am baffled by this. If I was prosecuting such a crime, I'd be demanding follow up tests anyhow, fat sample, nail sample, or hair strand analysis.

Plus, as far as I know all people admitted to remand nowadays are 'pee tested' for street drugs.

Maybe prosecutors see little value in pushing for drug use evidence as it lowers culpability?

Being intoxicated does not necessarily form a defence. Intoxication | The Crown Prosecution Service.

I'm not a scientist but I don't believe those other tests are able to prove that an individual was X amount intoxicated at the time the offence was committed (especially as they don't actually know the exact time of the fatal injuries).
 
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RusselSprout

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Anyone who witnesses such violence to a child would know the potential damage it could have caused, she put herself first IMO before the needs of LM, most probably for months.

She is, at least, from what I've heard so far, guilty of causing or allowing LM's death.

MOO.

BBM totally agree with this. I said before she was selfish and put her romantic relationship before her relationship with her son, but youve worded it much better.
 

Jay_Tec

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I do not believe AW did not know how Logan injured his arm when it happened. What prompted her to phone the police months later ,I am not sure about.

She was complicit it the abuse being systematically conflicted upon Logan. She also must have known he was seriously injured and needed urgent medical help.

Just my speculation, but maybe now and then she'd have been quite happy to see the back of the Youth. Probably didn't fit into her idea of a 'perfect family'.

JC and AW strike me as extremely emotionally immature, the sort of parents who would wage 'tit for tat' offensives on one another. In those sort of dynamics, the kids are used as pawns and chattel. We know JC 'took' the baby at some point.
 

Jay_Tec

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I'm increasingly convinced that JC and possibly the youth also seriously assaulted logan and she is playing down the severity to try and save her own skin.
I think she knew how sick and injured he was and out of fear , stupid loyalty to Cole or her wanting to keep Cole (who knows which or all 3) ..put her child to bed gave him calpol and hoped and prayed for a miraculous outcome.
I think JC murdered him and AW allowed his death...jmo at this time ..I've no idea how it will go with the youth.

It's not just JC she wanted to keep. It's the baby too.
 

LucyRocket

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I'm sorry that we can't view the CCTV.

First, there are numerous cases where deceased individuals are hidden and/or transported in laundry bags, holdall bags, or suitcases where you don't want to believe they could fit!

I'm curious how much detail is visible on video at the hour the youth and JC were said to be leaving the flat for the river.

I'm also curious if the duo were in fact also carrying one or more black rubbish bags to the river as the youth described.

Clearly, Logan was moved to the river in the middle of the night but did they also haul rubbish as "cover" for their evil deed?

That’s a really good question. Surely they wouldn’t want to put bags of other rubbish linked to them at the same location at the same time
 

Jay_Tec

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Ah yes I'd forgotten the "not enough blood" detail. It's very odd. Do you happen to know if they draw blood with needles or do they do one of those spot tests on a bit of paper? I could see the latter being problematic without necessarily being obviously so before it's being scientifically tested.

If it was an on the spot blood prick test, then 'not enough blood' would have been immediately resolved by doing another within a short space of time.
Those type of tests are usually looking for instant results and in fact when looking for street drugs, saliva or urine is what they're based on.

So, I guess it was blood drawn and sent to a lab for full toxicology screen but then it makes no sense. Sounds like an excuse when the lab messed up - ie failed to process it / lost it / damaged it / machine failure.
 
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