UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor*

[infinit]

I’ve been thinking a lot about the charge causing or allowing the death of a child. To me and I’m happy to be corrected if I’m wrong, the legislation reads like if you know there is a risk to the child such as another person and you don’t protect them from it. Which given there is no charge, it leads me to thinking there was no known abuse going on and JC wasn’t a known risk. All MOO

The problem is you need to prove a "serious" risk of "serious physical harm"

Further, section 5(6) DVCVA confirms that in this context "serious" harm is to be equated with the level of physical harm that amounts to grievous bodily harm under the Offences against the Person Act 1861. The risk that must be foreseen relates to that level of harm and the risk itself must be significant rather than minimal or fanciful.

Child Abuse (non-sexual) - prosecution guidance | The Crown Prosecution Service

It's tough to prove that IMO if you have no previous interactions with health services that could be attributed to abuse etc previously. Doesn't mean that Logan wasn't subjected to violence, but you have to be able to prove serious injury or death was foreseeable.

If someone's leaving minor injuries, is it forseeable that they would then go on to badly injure/kill them? My personal opinion is if you're aware of any physical abuse against your child and then serious injury/death occurs, you've been responsible in causing it. But the law sees it differently.

JMO.

 

[katydid23]

Could the PTCOJ be something as "simple" as saying "no JC was with me the whole time and didn't leave the house"? when she knew he did.

It's quite possible she had no involvement in the murder or indeed the disposal. Which is why it makes me uncomfortable that just because she's a woman and a mother she's absolutely vilified by public opinion whilst the person who's actually charged with murder get's a comparatively easy ride...

I still struggle with the second person on the CCTV. Surely that person should be facing more charges... unless it's impossible to prove that that person knew that the item being disposed of was a body. That said PTCOJ is a very serious charge and they are possibly facing life sentences.

Intrigued. Keen for the plea hearings and whether we will ever find out what really went on.

"Which is why it makes me uncomfortable that just because she's a woman and a mother she's absolutely vilified by public opinion whilst the person who's actually charged with murder get's a comparatively easy ride..."

I guess I don't get this statement, or agree with it ,I suppose.

It makes me uncomfortable that a woman, and the victim's mother at that, did not protect her young child from her violent boyfriend. I know he is most likely the one who dealt the death blows. But Logan's mother, his protector, the woman who gave him life, was in the home and this horribly injured child suffered a painful death, while she was there. It makes me more than uncomfortable, it makes me sick to my stomach.

I don't feel like that monster is getting an easy ride. He is universally hated. But the mother is getting the heavy criticism because we didn't expect that she would be in on the cover up. Boyfriends---I have little faith in their ability to control their anger and their violent abuse. No surprise there so less chatter. JMO

 

[Seattle1]

Lovely boy...

Three people appear in court in connection with death of five-year-old

 

[Kitkat28]

This is the actual legislation Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004 and having read through it, I don’t understand how another adult living in the same house this took place isn’t guilty of this. BBM

The offence

(1)A person (“D”) is guilty of an offence if—

(a)a child or vulnerable adult (“V”) dies [F2or suffers serious physical harm] as a result of the unlawful act of a person who—

(i)was a member of the same household as V, and

(ii)had frequent contact with him,

snipped

(c)at that time there was a significant risk of serious physical harm being caused to V by the unlawful act of such a person, and

(d)either D was the person whose act caused [F3the death or serious physical harm] or—

(i)D was, or ought to have been, aware of the risk mentioned in paragraph (c),

(ii)D failed to take such steps as he could reasonably have been expected to take to protect V from the risk, and

(iii)the act occurred in circumstances of the kind that D foresaw or ought to have foreseen.

(2)The prosecution does not have to prove whether it is the first alternative in subsection (1)(d) or the second (sub-paragraphs (i) to (iii)) that applies.

 

[ChloLo]

But Logan is 5 and in school, he would have had school oversight, been seen throughout his life by health visitors and then the school nurse. Even if he had only minor injuries, these should have been cataloged.

(Unless it’s different in Wales)

 

[ChloLo]

This article includes some very interesting information about causing or allowing the death of a child.

Abusive parents who try to shift blame may face tougher sentences

 

[Cherwell]

This is the actual legislation Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004 and having read through it, I don’t understand how another adult living in the same house this took place isn’t guilty of this.
The offence
(1)A person (“D”) is guilty of an offence if—
(a)a child or vulnerable adult (“V”) dies [F2or suffers serious physical harm] as a result of the unlawful act of a person who—
(i)was a member of the same household as V, and
(ii)had frequent contact with him

The answer is probably that JC wasn't living in the same house.

 

[ChloLo]

They don’t have to live in the same house to be a member of the household from cps.gov.uk:

Household is defined in section 5(4)(a) DVCVA and will be given its ordinary meaning. It is not likely to include care homes or nurseries where a child is looked after with a number of others. A paid or voluntary domiciliary carer, a housekeeper or an au-pair or similar may fall under the definition, if it would be reasonable in the circumstances. Under the Act, a person may be regarded as a member of the household for the purpose of this offence if they visit so often, and for such periods of time, that it is reasonable to regard that person as a member of the household. Membership of a household will be for the courts to determine on a case by case basis.

IMO a fiancé could easily be classed as a member of that household even if they live separately.

 

[katydid23]

But Logan is 5 and in school, he would have had school oversight, been seen throughout his life by health visitors and then the school nurse. Even if he had only minor injuries, these should have been cataloged.

(Unless it’s different in Wales)

But with Covid for past year and a half, was he in school much?

 

[Cherwell]

They don’t have to live in the same house to be a member of the household from cps.gov.uk:

Household is defined in section 5(4)(a) DVCVA and will be given its ordinary meaning. It is not likely to include care homes or nurseries where a child is looked after with a number of others. A paid or voluntary domiciliary carer, a housekeeper or an au-pair or similar may fall under the definition, if it would be reasonable in the circumstances. Under the Act, a person may be regarded as a member of the household for the purpose of this offence if they visit so often, and for such periods of time, that it is reasonable to regard that person as a member of the household. Membership of a household will be for the courts to determine on a case by case basis.

IMO a fiancé could easily be classed as a member of that household even if they live separately.

Maybe, but weren't people quoted as saying that he wasn't there much?
Not that that's necessarily reliable.

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

The answer is probably that JC wasn't living in the same house.

If that's the loophole that means AW wriggles free then I'm more appalled at our justice system than I thought

 

[ChloLo]

But with Covid for past year and a half, was he in school much?

That’s a good question. However, JC appears in AWs photos around June 2019 so there would have likely been a period of JC having contact with Logan whilst school was open. Unless AW gave it some time before introducing them to each other. He should have had contact with health for vaccinations etc.

Does anyone know how soon a Local Authority will order a review after the death of a child they’ve had contact with? Is there a time frame?

 

[ChloLo]

Maybe, but weren't people quoted as saying that he wasn't there much?
Not that that's necessarily reliable.

It could be that he kept funny hours and/or people didn’t see him coming or going. How much attention do any of us really pay attention to our neighbours, unless something happens?

 

[Kitkat28]

It could be that he kept funny hours and/or people didn’t see him coming or going. How much attention do any of us really pay attention to our neighbours, unless something happens?

This is what I always wonder. Our living room (where we spend most time) is at the back of the house and I wouldn’t have the foggiest idea about the comings and goings of even my next-door-neighbours. In fact one set I wouldn’t even recognise.

I think when something like this happens, some people are just desperate to get in on the act and as such will say anything!

 

[ChloLo]

This is what I always wonder. Our living room (where we spend most time) is at the back of the house and I wouldn’t have the foggiest idea about the comings and goings of even my next-door-neighbours. In fact one set I wouldn’t even recognise.

I think when something like this happens, some people are just desperate to get in on the act and as such will say anything!

I don’t even know some of my neighbours names and I’ve lived at my current address for 4 years.

I agree about people wanting something to say and journalists can be like vultures. MOO

 

[Ruthbullock]

I don’t even know some of my neighbours names and I’ve lived at my current address for 4 years.

I agree about people wanting something to say and journalists can be like vultures. MOO

In hindsight I think the neighbours were also all disturbed in the early hours- I did think it was strange how many claimed to hear different things- until the argument was reported- sounds like it woke a few people up and they spilled the beans quickly out of annoyance, I get the impression they weren’t the best neighbours.

 

[InVinoVeritas]

I live in a flat on the first floor, and I'm aware that noise travels easily. There have been mornings especially during the toddler phase, when my downstairs neighbour has sympathised after hearing a typical normal toddler tantrum upstairs! I really hope if I ever heard prolonged crying or shouting or things being thrown around, that I would be making phonecalls! In the Kaylee-Jade case I thought it was so horrifying that neighbours had HEARD all the abuse going on.

 

[ChloLo]

I think people don’t like to get involved, because sometimes it has repercussions for them. A number of people have died trying to intervene. I was in an abusive relationship and I was so grateful every time someone phoned the police when I couldn’t.

There is also bystander effect. Where if a number of people are around to hear/see something, everyone expects somebody else to call for help and in the end nobody does.

 

[InVinoVeritas]

I think people don’t like to get involved, because sometimes it has repercussions for them. A number of people have died trying to intervene. I was in an abusive relationship and I was so grateful every time someone phoned the police when I couldn’t.

There is also bystander effect. Where if a number of people are around to hear/see something, everyone expects somebody else to call for help and in the end nobody does.

Yes, this is all very true - however I do think living in flats is slightly different to a house, as you are so “on top of each other” and more likely to see/hear things.
If anyone thought my child was in danger I’d rather them make phone calls than allow it to continue even if it wasn’t anything of concern. I’m sure people phone when they hear dogs whining all day!

 

[ChloLo]

I’m also in a flat, we’re the flat that goes to find out what’s going on and if we can assist at all when somethings happening, or I’ll call the police when needed. The others don’t really bother.

Another possible factor, particularly with small children is knowing as an outsider what’s just normal kid behaviour (tantrums) and what’s untoward. Plus there’s also the possibility of being accused of wasting the emergencies services time.