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GUILTY UK - Margaret Fleming, 19, Inverclyde, Scotland, 17 Dec 1999 *Deceased/Not Found*

Discussion in 'Trials' started by MelmothTheLost, Dec 12, 2016.

  1. Ironside

    Ironside Well-Known Member

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    Yes, neighbours have said in court that they never ever saw Margaret come visit. One neighbour said he smelt burning flesh years ago, he was an ex-firefighter so knew the smell.
     
  2. Ironside

    Ironside Well-Known Member

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    Eddie is on the stand today. He says he'd never harm a kid or lady. Would the incident with Margaret's mother not count as harm?

    Margaret Fleming accused denies harming her

    I bet Avril won't testify, she's too much of a sh**ebag.
     
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  3. bluebird69

    bluebird69 Well-Known Member

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    The accused certainly sounds as if he is not used to anyone disagreeing with him. A right charmer or chancer imo
     
  4. Ironside

    Ironside Well-Known Member

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    He called McSporran a clown today!
     
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  5. mumofboys93

    mumofboys93 Member

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    I believe he is telling a pack of lies but sprinkling bits of truth in there too to make it sound believable.
    I also think that he knows exactly what has happened to Margaret and is bluffing his way through.
    Would be interesting to know his answer to the question about the burning flesh, this article didn’t mention what he answered.

    Murder accused 'incapable' of killing Margaret Fleming
     
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  6. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    Interesting that this is being instigated. A check on GP 'ghost' patients - patients who haven't visited their doctor in the last 5 years. Something like this could have discovered their crimes years ago.

    NHS fraud squad to probe 'ghost patients'
     
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  7. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    The earlier article quotes his answer:-

    "He was also asked about claims made by ex-fireman Paul Neeson during the trial that he once smelled burning human flesh from a bonfire at Mr Cairney's home.
    Mr Cairney replied: "Was the guy not totally discredited...a nutcase."
    Iain McSporran QC, for the prosecution, put it to Mr Cairney that he did not see Margaret Fleming in London in October 2017 as she was dead.
    Mr Cairney replied: "No, you are wrong. Margaret Fleming is still alive and it is very, very vicious of you to suggest otherwise."
    Mr McSporran continued: "You killed her and spent years telling lie after lie."
    The witness answered: "Could you tell me the basis of that?"
    The QC said: "You lied to cover up the most dreadful crime of murder."
    Mr Cairney said: "Nonsense. Absolute nonsense."
    The exchange followed a tense period of cross-examination during which Mr Cairney was told off by the judge for calling Mr McSporran a "clown".
    He also told jurors that he had not been friends with Margaret's father, Derek Fleming.
    He said: "Derek wasn't a friend of mine, he was a louse. I didn't take the louse, I took up the daughter."
     
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  8. Ironside

    Ironside Well-Known Member

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    This is about gp fraud rather than the wellbeing of the patients registered with them.

    This case should hopefully bring about a complete overhaul of benefits and carers allowances going unchecked for years. There is likely many more Margaret Flemings out there.
     
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  9. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    Hopefully yes. But I'm not positive that will happen. Clearly persons on benefits should be seen by someone at least once per year one would think, but it obviously does not happen. This case only came to light because AJ applied for an increase IIRC.
     
  10. Taskforce88

    Taskforce88 Well-Known Member

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    Woah. I was kind of thinking that the neighbours may have witnessed something happening next door 20-odd years ago, like strange digging or burning.
     
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  11. mumofboys93

    mumofboys93 Member

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  12. mumofboys93

    mumofboys93 Member

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  13. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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  14. Ironside

    Ironside Well-Known Member

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    The jury is out! I won't be that surprised if it ends with a not proven for murder though. I truly believe they did it but if I was a juror I think I'd really struggle with the decision on murder. Are all the lies enough to convict?

    At the very least Avril should hopefully go down for benefit fraud.
     
  15. Tortoise

    Tortoise Well-Known Member

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  16. Antonia

    Antonia Active Member

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    I think they should be held jointly liable for both crimes (murder and fraud). Surely it is obvious to most people that Margaret is dead, EC and AJ both know she is dead, and they have acted together for years pretending that she's alive so that they can claim her benefits. They should both go to prison for a long time.
     
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  17. bluebird69

    bluebird69 Well-Known Member

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    Proving murder without a body is always a challenge but any reasonable person could not believe that margaret is still alive after all this time. Especially after listening to the cock and bull stories given by the defendants imo
     
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  18. Tortoise

    Tortoise Well-Known Member

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  19. Tortoise

    Tortoise Well-Known Member

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  20. Tortoise

    Tortoise Well-Known Member

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    But a jury at the High Court in Glasgow found Cairney and Jones guilty of murder after a seven-week trial.

    Jones was also found guilty of fraudulently claiming £182,000 in benefits by pretending that Ms Fleming was alive.
    Carers guilty of murdering missing teenager
     

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