UK UK - Martin Allen, 15, London England, 1979

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Robin Hood said:
I spent a couple of hours only last week contacting past residents of The Red House boys home to see if at any time the boys went to Norfolk. I'm trying to place Robert Black there when April Fabb was abducted in 1969. If I could place him in and around Cromer as a boy it's possible he returned in adulthood.
So far, like others before me I have failed.
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Isn't black suspected of kidnapping Genette tate, was that not in the 70's in Norfolk or am I getting my wires crossed. I think Black worked as a lorry driver which was why he was able to murder girls so far apart, I thin he also dumped the poor girls bodie shundreds of miles away in some cases.
 
brit1981 said:
Isn't black suspected of kidnapping Genette tate, was that not in the 70's in Norfolk or am I getting my wires crossed. I think Black worked as a lorry driver which was why he was able to murder girls so far apart, I thin he also dumped the poor girls bodie shundreds of miles away in some cases.
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Black passed his driving test in 1976, although he owned vehicles before then it was thought his driving work started when he had a full licence. April Fabb was 1969. I think Prof. David Wilson has been trying to place him in Norfolk in 1969 without luck.
Genette Tate was in Devon and was on his driving route through work.
 
Robert Black is driven by disgusting fantasies about the womb.
So I`m quite sure he hasn't anything to do with the disappearance of Martin Allen.
It just would not be any use for him to rape and murder a boy.
 
Mischa said:
Robert Black is driven by disgusting fantasies about the womb.
So I`m quite sure he hasn't anything to do with the disappearance of Martin Allen.
It just would not be any use for him to rape and murder a boy.
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Sorry we had gone off track there - a link I posted also mentioned some of robert black's victims.

About black, robin, was that his lorry license or car license. Also I was getting Gennette mixed up with April.
Back on to Martin Allen. Could his disappearence be connected to Kevin Hics who disappeared aged 16 from Croydon in1986, and Lee Boxell who disappeared aged 15 from nearby sutton in 1988. I know Martin disappeared north of the river, but the line he was on was southbound, so the abductor could have been travelling that way.
 
brit1981 said:
Sorry we had gone off track there - a link I posted also mentioned some of robert black's victims.

About black, robin, was that his lorry license or car license. Also I was getting Gennette mixed up with April.
Back on to Martin Allen. Could his disappearence be connected to Kevin Hics who disappeared aged 16 from Croydon in1986, and Lee Boxell who disappeared aged 15 from nearby sutton in 1988. I know Martin disappeared north of the river, but the line he was on was southbound, so the abductor could have been travelling that way.
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Re. the license, I will have to check. Maybe he just drove a van no HGV. We could do with a separate thread for Black.
.

Re. Martin, I can't help but feel he was part of something larger. I need to have a look at the stops on the underground and the homes/stomping grounds of the paedofiles in Jason Swifts case.
Edited to add - and the disappearances you have just mentioned
 
It seemed the killers of Jason swift lived in Hackney, very near Jason at the time of his killing. But the gang were involved in the death of barry Lewis from South London, and Mark Tildesley from wokingham (33 miles from central London). Here is a quick timeline of disappearence and murders of boys in London from 1979 to 1988.

1979: disappeared: martin allen, 15, on southbound piccadilly line (left from kings cross). Last seen at earls court (which is where you can get connecting trains back north, or further south). Guy Fawkes night

1981: murdered by unknown person(s), Vishal Mehrota, 8, Putney in south london. Putney is on district line. Royal wedding day.

1984: Disappeared, Mark Tildesley, 7, Wokingham. Disappeared from funfair. Leslie bailey convicted of murder,

1985: Murdered, Barry Lewis, 6, walworth south london. leslie bailey convicted. Although from south London, he was apparently taken to the flat in hackney north London. Seven or eight "men" were reported to have been involved in the poor little soul's death. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...three-boys-graham-moorby-reports-1509555.html

1985: Killed, Jason Swift 14, Hackney north london, lured to the gangs flats in hackney. Leslie bailey et al convicted of manslaughter.

1986: Disappeared Kevin Hicks, 16, Croydon south London. Went to local shop in evening and never returned.

1988: Disappeared, Lee Boxell, 15, Sutton, South London. Last seen on sutton high street, where he said he might go to see a football match.

Four of these boys disappeared when there was something festive or celebratory going on - guy fawkes, royal wedding, funfair, football match. jason Swift disappeared near to where the gang lived, and I have no idea if there were funfairs or anythign on at the time Barry and kevin disappeared. But as they were nown to target children at funfairs, perhaps they also targeted them at big events like bonfire parties, street parties etc. It coudl be that someone set off to go to a bonfire party to snatch a child, and on the way saw Martin Allen.
 
I'm going to look at this and get my head around the areas.
I was working in Sutton about the time Lee Boxhall went missing. IIRC I would get the electric train from Sutton to the underground and then on to St Pancras. It was a long time ago though.

I guess the best way to find kids would be where 'exciting' things are happening fairs , bonfires, street parties.
I'm still stunned at the Photo of Lennie Smith and the photofit re. Martin Allen, IMO it's spot on for him.
 
Lee Boxell left his friends on the 10th Sept' 88 on Sutton high street to head off to Selhurst Park football ground 7.5 miles away. Nobody knows if he got there and nobody appears to have seen him at the ground. That's quite an area to start looking if he walked. He could have been taken anywhere on that route.

Edited to add -the game was Millwall V Charlton

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Kevin Hicks lived on Sissinghurst Road, Addiscombe on March 2, 1986.

''At 8pm, Kevin told his mother he needed some eggs for a GCSE Home Economics exam the next day and left his house to go to Lower Addiscombe Road's 7 Eleven but was never seen again''.
http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/256687.neverending_search_for_missing_family_members/
 
brit1981 said:
God they are revolting. What sort of people get to gether to group rape a child. I cannot believe they only served nine years for the death of jason Swift. I also wish the media woudl not call him arent boy. He was a fourteen year old boy who had run away after his parents split up and he had to stay with a relative. He was fending for himself on the streets of London, and a group of men preyed on him, and (at least in their version), offered him money for sex.
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I've read somewhere that a lot of files relating to that investigation, Operation Orchid I think it was called, were lost too. Which always seems a bit suspicious when that happens.
 
Pisces Cloud said:
I've read somewhere that a lot of files relating to that investigation, Operation Orchid I think it was called, were lost too. Which always comes across as being a bit dodgy when that happens.
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http://www.nickdavies.net/1995/04/01/the-murder-of-daniel-handley-three-features/

I think this was originallt published in the daily mail back in the mid ninties. The second feature describes the real difficulties the poice had with getting a picture of previous investigations like operation orchid i.e files missing etc
 
If you use Google maps and use the addresses where the missing were last seen, there's a train station fairly close. I suppose it's not surprising as it's greater London but It would be useful for a person to 'hop off' here and there to look for kids.
 
Although, only that small group were probably involved with child murder, I always thought that there was a larger paedophile network in place, mainly centred around children's care homes. I believe Jason Swift was also in a care home in Islington at one point too. I've also read allegations that a politician's name cropped up during the Jason Swift investigation.

Also, I've seen it reported that there was a ring operating in the 70s that used to have someone waiting at train stations in London, to spot runaway children to take and groom. So, I can believe that is what other groups could have been doing too.
 
Pisces Cloud said:
Although, only that small group were probably involved with child murder, I always thought that there was a larger paedophile network in place, mainly centred around children's care homes. I believe Jason Swift was also in a care home in Islington at one point too. I've also read allegations that a politician's name cropped up during the Jason Swift investigation.

Also, I've seen it reported that there was a ring operating in the 70s that used to have someone waiting at train stations in London, to spot runaway children to take and groom. So, I can believe that is what other groups could have been doing too.
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Well, I have only heard of four of this group ever serving prison time for their crimes, yet according to reports seven or eight men wer einvolved in the murder of Barry Lewis.
As for care homes, I have heard soemthing similar about Jason Swift, but not the others. But loo at what is going on now with young girls inc are homes being targeted by gangs. Also loo at the casa Pia case in Portugal. That was a system of abuse and child prositution being carried out from a "care" home, and involving several high profile people. It too the police years to finally do anythign and evidence (photographs implicating people) were lost. I have also mentioned this in the madeleine mccann forum.
 
Robin Hood said:
Lee Boxell left his friends on the 10th Sept' 88 on Sutton high street to head off to Selhurst Park football ground 7.5 miles away. Nobody knows if he got there and nobody appears to have seen him at the ground. That's quite an area to start looking if he walked. He could have been taken anywhere on that route.

Edited to add -the game was Millwall V Charlton

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Kevin Hicks lived on Sissinghurst Road, Addiscombe on March 2, 1986.

''At 8pm, Kevin told his mother he needed some eggs for a GCSE Home Economics exam the next day and left his house to go to Lower Addiscombe Road's 7 Eleven but was never seen again''.
http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/256687.neverending_search_for_missing_family_members/
Click to expand...

I have done some online research on the Lee Boxell case after reading Andrew O'Hagans book "The Missing" several years ago. (By the way: One of the best books I ever read.)

I remember an article were his mother statet that he probably had to asked for directions because he didn't know how to get to Selhurst Park football ground.

Another article mentioned that a woman came forward several years after Lee went missing saying that she saw a boy resembling Lee strolling (along the railway?) towards Selhurst Park football ground with a man who seemed to show him directions.
 
AUG 2012
I have recently met Alexandra online through the search for Tia Sharp, Croydon, [now deceased]. Alexandra is once again trying to raise awareness about Kevin through social media. She knows it's been a long time, both their parents have died. She hopes for answers, as do all the relatives of the missing. People always have hope. She is asking for national & even international coverage. When I did an online search, mention of Kevin Hicks here on WS came up so thought it worth a try to mention him again.

Perhaps you are aware of this new campaign already.
So many people hoping for closure, it is sad.
Thanks.
 
What about asking Tricia here if she could be interviewed for the websleuths blog radio, and starting a thread about him hear. what about a twitter campaign and asking celebrities to retweet. I know that is a small thing, but it could be enough to get a Uk national paper to do an article - you know the type of "celebrities help twitter campaign to find missing teenager", or perhaps like this thread an article could be done on several missing boys from this time period. Also media seem to like age progressions so perhaps it would be worth getting one done - universities may be prepared to do one, manchester, shefield, and dundee have facial reconstruction programmes I think.
 
This is a very sad and baffling case indeed. Thoughts and prayers are with the family and even though 33 years have gone by, hopefully one day they will find out the truth and get closure.
 
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