Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #15

[EvaP]

Not sure if this is relevant or not? I have Team Meetings every week but I wouldn't do them outside walking my own dog (x springer/collie). For anyone walking their dogs you know dogs can react to other dogs/you speak to other dog owners. Any work meeting for me I conduct at home as it is more professional as in my mind as you are 'working'. Loads of others probably have a different mindest on this but MOO

I go on our internal teams meeting whilst walking the dog on my WFH days. It’s a good way to spend the time and it’s just a thirty minute internal catch up. Earbuds in and by the river although I’ve started walking in the visible park bit now.

 

[Woodburnbay]

Not aimed at you, but I'm so over this bashing by MSM and ex "experts" towards the police. Taking the focus away from what really matters and that's finding Nicola.

I agree. Its not going to find Nicola, neither is the assumptions and dwelling on her welfare issues.
We should focus on the scene in question.

IMO The kissing gate behind the bench and what side of gate was dog on when NB disappeared
The placement of the phone
The witnesses and their statements

 

[bringmeacupoft]

New links

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1626885774405779456

Sky's crime correspondent Martin Blunt

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1626888042567827458

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1626878083734114304

Contrary to the Mirror article's title - the final text is not revealed at the link, and we already had a summary. ( Have checked, all it says is as below)
'A friend who lives in the village - who did not wish to be named - told the Mirror: "She booked a playdate, 8.57, she sent a text message to a friend whose mortgage she had just recently signed off on to arrange for the girls to go for tea this week."The friend said this indicates she had no intention of voluntarily disappearing."You wouldn’t have done that if you were going to get up and go missing," she added.

Interesting again they suggest family aren’t happy with the investigation but they’ve said plenty times they are

 

[Marie Bell]

Not aimed at you, but I'm so over this bashing by MSM and ex "experts" towards the police. Taking the focus away from what really matters and that's finding Nicola.

I'm not sure that Brunt was 'police bashing' and I know that Colin Sutton wasn't. They're making the point that police are constrained by so much official scrutiny that's taken place over the years that they daren't build relationships with the press in the way they used to. A good example of them trying to manage a journalist and trusting him to keep quiet was the Cliff Richard/BBC Journalist/South Yorkshire Police fiasco. The police can't win, and the responsible press can't either. In my mind the real nuisances are those like the BBC journalist, certain people with Sky, and more than anyone: the absolute dregs like MWT.

 

[cottonweaver]

An interesting article by Martin Brunt about the way police and media might have avoided the current situation. With an equally interesting reply from Colin Sutton (ex Milly Dowler/Levi Bellfield Detective), confirming why things changed, but not always in a beneficial way.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1626868414915436546

bit surprised to read that and notice that while Brunt brings up the Milly Dowler case he didn't mention the phone-hacking !

Brunt on the Dowler investigation & why things changed.
'The senior detective revealed the complexities of the case and much of the circumstantial evidence his team were building against the suspect.
None of us broke the agreement not to publish, and probably just as well because the suspect was eventually ruled out and serial killer Levi Bellfield was later convicted of Milly's murder.
The police had enough trust in reporters to show us the focus of their investigation, without having to bat away our questions awkwardly at a live press conference.' ( Brunt in Sky link)

facts:

Dowler's murder played a significant role in the News International phone hacking scandal. In 2011, reports revealed how journalists at the News of the World newspaper had accessed Dowler's voicemail after she was reported missing, giving her parents false hope she was still alive. Missing Milly Dowler's voicemail was hacked by News of the World

Dowler's parents announced via their solicitor that they would pursue a claim for damages against the News of the World.[49] In September 2011, it was reported that the Dowler family had been offered £2m in personal damages.[50] In January 2012, it was reported that Surrey Police and other police forces knew soon after Dowler's death that News of the World staff had accessed her mobile phone messages, but did not take issue with this. Instead a senior Surrey officer invited newspaper staff to a meeting to discuss the case. ( wikipedia) Murder of Milly Dowler - Wikipedia

 

[Mr X]

Slightly bizarre IMO that the sky news duo are standing in front of a derelict building with a broken wooden panel over one of the windows and they seem to think there is nothing to suggest how someone could have disappeared.

Bizarre. The building is so obvious. Maybe it is too obvious and people just don't see it. Just part of the landscape.


It really doesn't look to me like anyone has actually been in there. Certainly not the police as they would need the door to be opened rather than breaking the bottom of a wooden panel. I'm interested to know if the wooden parts are secured from the inside. If they are then it is a tunnel.

Looking at the interior picture a tunnel makes some sense as there is a square hole presumably with a ladder and a second hole with lifting gear.

If the idea was as an escape route from the house opposite you would want to take things with you and that would not be possible climbing a ladder. You would need some sort of lifting gear to separately lift the belongings/gold/jewels.

The winch looks rather old and heavy duty.

 

[Woodburnbay]

I'm not sure that Brunt was 'police bashing' and I know that Colin Sutton wasn't. They're making the point that police are constrained by so much official scrutiny that's taken place over the years that they daren't build relationships with the press in the way they used to. A good example of them trying to manage a journalist and trusting him to keep quiet was the Cliff Richard/BBC Journalist/South Yorkshire Police fiasco. The police can't win, and the responsible press can't either. In my mind the real nuisances are those like the BBC journalist, certain people with Sky, and more than anyone: the absolute dregs like MWT.

The only journal that can help this case are the investigative ones. The rest are just amateurs copying and pasting what they've read on social media or in another newspaper.

 

[Bibitty]

IMO I think as she started the return leg of her walk, she realised she didn’t want to go home and had had enough so was walking very slowly. Possibly something from the night before playing on her mind added to her other worries.

I think she staged the phone and lead, because of her knowledge of insurance policies and buy some time and went through the kissing gate turned left through the woods down to the weir and entered the water after that where it flows faster and is tidal. She knew Willow would be fine next to water and be found soon anyway.

She could therefore have been much further down the river than they initially estimated.

That’s an interesting possibility. However she didn’t need to go through the gate - there is a path to the right of the bench that follows the riverbank around that meander past the weir - when it reaches the road bridge - there is the option to cut up and join the towpath (you can see broken fence) or walk under the bridge (locals say river is shallow at low tide here) and out the otherside to join the riverbank path on the otherside - she could choose to walk on the right or left bank downstream and enter the water where ever - or walk into wide open countryside/woodland. It also doesn’t look too far to walk from the left bank cross country home to Inskip across fields.

 

[Enigmacode]

An interesting article by Martin Brunt about the way police and media might have avoided the current situation. With an equally interesting reply from Colin Sutton (ex Milly Dowler/Levi Bellfield Detective), confirming why things changed, but not always in a beneficial way.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1626868414915436546

Great article, interesting info and history.
However, current 'media' is not as controlled and controllable as it once was to be able to perform these off record briefings.
Mistrust in police isn't connected IMO, cases like Sarah Everard have done the real damage in public/police trust.

As regards police media PR relations, from the outset, the message should have been what seasoned Met police repeatedly state:
'We are following all lines of enquiry, we are leaving no stone unturned but cannot comment further on our current lines of investigation, they are ongoing and we will inform the public once we have further concrete information'. Factual details elaborated on, etc.
The difficulty began when they stated the 'gone into the river' hypothesis as the predominant line of enquiry, so early on.
And then just back peddling and having to justify their position from there.
Topped off by breaching privacy laws, inter alia!

But there are no real PR wins in cases like these.
The police handling of this case, will probably go down in academic papers in how not to handle a case like this!

 

[29 Acacia Road]

I'd be wary of any of things that have appeared in the tabloids, such as the glove that was found and even the two fishermen and possibly the tatty red van. If the Police haven't asked for additional information, then they likely assessed it as irrelevant or possibly a hoax quite quickly.

If you report something to the Police they are under no obligation at all to tell you whether it's relevant or not, or keep you informed of additional work around it, or any other aspect of the investigation. I'd question the motives of people who go to the tabloids to complain about lack of follow up, or to get a mention they are a 'youtuber', or 'Tiktoker'.

If you have genuine information and genuinely wanted to help, you'd just tell the Police and let them do their job, not see it as an opportunity.

 

[pineapple23]

Slightly bizarre IMO that the sky news duo are standing in front of a derelict building with a broken wooden panel over one of the windows and they seem to think there is nothing to suggest how someone could have disappeared.

Bizarre. The building is so obvious. Maybe it is too obvious and people just don't see it. Just part of the landscape.


It really doesn't look to me like anyone has actually been in there. Certainly not the police as they would need the door to be opened rather than breaking the bottom of a wooden panel. I'm interested to know if the wooden parts are secured from the inside. If they are then it is a tunnel.

Looking at the interior picture a tunnel makes some sense as there is a square hole presumably with a ladder and a second hole with lifting gear.

If the idea was as an escape route from the house opposite you would want to take things with you and that would not be possible climbing a ladder. You would need some sort of lifting gear to separately lift the belongings/gold/jewels.

The winch looks rather old and heavy duty.

Pretty sure this was discussed in earlier threads. As you say, it's obvious and LE said they searched all old/abandoned buildings along the route. If I remember correctly it had been broken into by a member of the public but it has been searched by the police anyway. I'll try to find the link.

 

[Marie Bell]

bit surprised to read that and notice that while Brunt brings up the Milly Dowler case he didn't mention the phone-hacking !

Brunt on the Dowler investigation & why things changed.
'The senior detective revealed the complexities of the case and much of the circumstantial evidence his team were building against the suspect.
None of us broke the agreement not to publish, and probably just as well because the suspect was eventually ruled out and serial killer Levi Bellfield was later convicted of Milly's murder.
The police had enough trust in reporters to show us the focus of their investigation, without having to bat away our questions awkwardly at a live press conference.' ( Brunt in Sky link)

facts:

Dowler's murder played a significant role in the News International phone hacking scandal. In 2011, reports revealed how journalists at the News of the World newspaper had accessed Dowler's voicemail after she was reported missing, giving her parents false hope she was still alive. Missing Milly Dowler's voicemail was hacked by News of the World

Dowler's parents announced via their solicitor that they would pursue a claim for damages against the News of the World.[49] In September 2011, it was reported that the Dowler family had been offered £2m in personal damages.[50] In January 2012, it was reported that Surrey Police and other police forces knew soon after Dowler's death that News of the World staff had accessed her mobile phone messages, but did not take issue with this. Instead a senior Surrey officer invited newspaper staff to a meeting to discuss the case. ( wikipedia) Murder of Milly Dowler - Wikipedia

Oh, absolutely. It's all a long and involved minefield.

 

[Mr X]

Was discussed in an earlier thread. If I remember correctly it had been broken into by a member of the public but it has been searched by the police anyway. I'll try to find the link.

I wonder how the police got in there without moving the door.

The horizontal piece of wood at the base is at an angle exactly as it was 4 years ago.

 

[MrsWatson]

Are we allowed to add YouTube links here?

Here's a handy link to the rules regarding social media, including YouTube.

Rules - Social Media - Facebook, Twitter, etc.

ALLOWED SOCIAL MEDIA PAGES Individuals Victim (missing or murdered person) Suspect (as officially named by LE) Links may be used to direct members to posts made by a victim or a suspect. Paraphrasing is okay, but direct quotes, copying/pasting, screenshots from these pages is not allowed...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Petrocelli]

That’s an interesting possibility. However she didn’t need to go through the gate - there is a path to the right of the bench that follows the riverbank around that meander past the weir - when it reaches the road bridge - there is the option to cut up and join the towpath (you can see broken fence) or walk under the bridge (locals say river is shallow at low tide here) and out the otherside to join the riverbank path on the otherside - she could choose to walk on the right or left bank downstream and enter the water where ever - or walk into wide open countryside/woodland. It also doesn’t look too far to walk from the left bank cross country home to Inskip across fields.

It’s possible she could have just kept walking but I’d think more likely someone would see her if she did (dog walker, farmer, fisherman). Also maybe you’re more likely to want to end it all in the moment so would need to be somewhere nearby. But who knows and either way this scenario seems more plausible than anything else I can think of.

 

[PeteG85]

That’s an interesting possibility. However she didn’t need to go through the gate - there is a path to the right of the bench that follows the riverbank around that meander past the weir - when it reaches the road bridge - there is the option to cut up and join the towpath (you can see broken fence) or walk under the bridge (locals say river is shallow at low tide here) and out the otherside to join the riverbank path on the otherside - she could choose to walk on the right or left bank downstream and enter the water where ever - or walk into wide open countryside/woodland. It also doesn’t look too far to walk from the left bank cross country home to Inskip across fields.

I looked at this the other day, if someone was to do the route as you suggest above and cross the river at the bridge, then walking through the field on the other side of the bridge (which seems to have quite a high hedge), could bring you to a gap in the hedge directly opposite the road where PA was said to have searched 'an abandoned house' on the sunday before the organised locals search on the first weekend as far as i remember.
I posted a screenshot of the house i thought might be where he looked a few days back from google maps, but it was deleted.

If you look on Blackpool road between the village hall and the Alpaca farm, there is a road heading south which becomes a path and then ultimately ends at a large house with no road drive hard standing etc. (i am aware this could have changed since the google maps image)

its probably nothing and is all MOO

 

[Normanly]

I'd be wary of any of things that have appeared in the tabloids, such as the glove that was found and even the two fishermen and possibly the tatty red van. If the Police haven't asked for additional information, then they likely assessed it as irrelevant or possibly a hoax quite quickly.

If you report something to the Police they are under no obligation at all to tell you whether it's relevant or not, or keep you informed of additional work around it, or any other aspect of the investigation. I'd question the motives of people who go to the tabloids to complain about lack of follow up, or to get a mention they are a 'youtuber', or 'Tiktoker'.

If you have genuine information and genuinely wanted to help, you'd just tell the Police and let them do their job, not see it as an opportunity.

I agree regarding newspaper articles but as far as I can see the red van has not been discounted the SIO just didn't see it as suspicious. They were still trying to trace it at the press conference. I have been unable to find anything to say the owner has been located and discounted?

If a local witness who uses the warehouse found a van being parked outside suspicious and it's on the same day that a woman disappears in the immediate area then I would think that was worthy of attention? perhaps they went to the press because they thought it should be brought to the attention of the local public sooner and were frustrated.

The red van - We're really really grateful to members of the public for ringing into the enquiry. We wouldn't have got this far without everybody's help, but I think it's also really obvious that we are being inundated with false information, accusations and rumours, which is distracting us from our work. The red van has been reported that it was in the area on the morning of the 27th., like many other hundreds of cars that morning. We're really grateful for the witness who has told us about that and we are continuing to make enquiries to try and track down that specific van, but from my perspective, being in possession of all the facts and information of his case, I do not believe that to be suspicious, but we are continuing to investigate that, so that we can identify whoever was in the area at that time to make sure that they can't give us any further information that will assist the investigation.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Slightly bizarre IMO that the sky news duo are standing in front of a derelict building with a broken wooden panel over one of the windows and they seem to think there is nothing to suggest how someone could have disappeared.

Bizarre. The building is so obvious. Maybe it is too obvious and people just don't see it. Just part of the landscape.


It really doesn't look to me like anyone has actually been in there. Certainly not the police as they would need the door to be opened rather than breaking the bottom of a wooden panel. I'm interested to know if the wooden parts are secured from the inside. If they are then it is a tunnel.

Looking at the interior picture a tunnel makes some sense as there is a square hole presumably with a ladder and a second hole with lifting gear.

If the idea was as an escape route from the house opposite you would want to take things with you and that would not be possible climbing a ladder. You would need some sort of lifting gear to separately lift the belongings/gold/jewels.

The winch looks rather old and heavy duty.

I'm not certain about this so I wouldn't want anyone to repeat it as a fact, but I believe the building is an old (and seemingly now abandoned) water monitoring station.

The currently in use water monitoring station is located in the building next to the weir that police searched just a few days ago:

River Wyre at St Michaels: River level and flood alerts

River levels and flood alerts for the River Wyre at St Michaels, Lancashire

riverlevels.uk

 

[Mr X]

I'm not certain about this so I wouldn't want anyone to repeat it as a fact, but I believe the building is an old (and seemingly now abandoned) water monitoring station.

The currently in use water monitoring station is located in the building next to the weir that police searched just a few days ago:

River Wyre at St Michaels: River level and flood alerts

River levels and flood alerts for the River Wyre at St Michaels, Lancashire

riverlevels.uk

Water levels. That makes sense yes.

 

[Davieson]

That’s an interesting possibility. However she didn’t need to go through the gate - there is a path to the right of the bench that follows the riverbank around that meander past the weir - when it reaches the road bridge - there is the option to cut up and join the towpath (you can see broken fence) or walk under the bridge (locals say river is shallow at low tide here) and out the otherside to join the riverbank path on the otherside - she could choose to walk on the right or left bank downstream and enter the water where ever - or walk into wide open countryside/woodland. It also doesn’t look too far to walk from the left bank cross country home to Inskip across fields.

What would stop the dog following - assuming it wasn't tied up ?