UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #24

[Tortoise]

Also, it hasn't been clarified in the court that Dr A / Doc Choc *is* 'the boyfriend' so how are the podcasters sure?

<rsbm>

Because NJ has been referring to him as her boyfriend, and without reference to another one in the same block of cross-examination, it doesn't make any sense that he would just introduce another one that he hasn't mentioned at all, IMO.

 

[CS2C]

That podcast has misrepresented what was actually said in court regarding the boyfriend comment. I will elaborate tomorrow but Mr Johnson was referring to the money she was earning at the time and that she earned enough with the new office job to have a house, to have a car, to have a boyfriend.

It may well be that he did catch her out here but Mr Johnson didn’t say a word or pull her up when she replied “yes” to boyfriend and as I say it was all based around her new role at the hospital and if it was a good job etc

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

<rsbm>

Because NJ has been referring to him as her boyfriend, and without reference to another one in the same block of cross-examination, it doesn't make any sense that he would just introduce another one that he hasn't mentioned at all, IMO.

I agree it could seem that way, that it was an 'aha!' caught her out moment but since she's steadfastly and vehemently denied the married Dr A / Doc Choc is a relationship, and we know she had had a boyfriend previously who spoke as to her character, and she was socialising a lot, we still need clarification that she wasn't actually dating someone else surely?

I'm 50:50 on this and not convinced.

 

[Tortoise]

I agree it could seem that way, that it was an 'aha!' caught her out moment but since she's steadfastly and vehemently denied the married Dr A / Doc Choc is a relationship, and we know she had had a boyfriend previously who spoke as to her character, and she was socialising a lot, we still need clarification that she wasn't actually dating someone else surely?

I'm 50:50 on this and not convinced.

I've never seen reference to another boyfriend.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

That podcast has misrepresented what was actually said in court regarding the boyfriend comment. I will elaborate tomorrow but Mr Johnson was referring to the money she was earning at the time and that she earned enough with the new office job to have a house, to have a car, to have a boyfriend.

It may well be that he did catch her out here but Mr Johnson didn’t say a word or pull her up when she replied “yes” to boyfriend and as I say it was all based around her new role at the hospital and if it was a good job etc

Thanks for this comment.

I've been reading the commentaries and to my mind, what got said certainly did not 'reveal' that LL admitted Dr A / Doc Choc was her 'boyfriend'.

Had it done so, and had that been the intention, it should have been immediately picked up and gone over for the sake of the court recordings along the lines of 'so you did have a boyfriend / romantic interest / dating someone at that time?' and was it Dr A etc.

So I feel quite confused as to why others see it so definitely. JMO

 

[Tortoise]

That podcast has misrepresented what was actually said in court regarding the boyfriend comment. I will elaborate tomorrow but Mr Johnson was referring to the money she was earning at the time and that she earned enough with the new office job to have a house, to have a car, to have a boyfriend.

It may well be that he did catch her out here but Mr Johnson didn’t say a word or pull her up when she replied “yes” to boyfriend and as I say it was all based around her new role at the hospital and if it was a good job etc

She was meeting doc choc while she was in her new role. 2017 they said were the dates of their meet ups.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think it's quite obvious that Dr A / Doc Choc certainly *could be* a 'boyfriend' but that wasn't locked down in the court today from what got said that I read in the commentary.

One would need to read the verbatim notes to be sure but I hope this issue is picked up on some more.

<modsnip> JMO

 

[CS2C]

She was meeting doc choc while she was in her new role. 2017 they said were the dates of their meet ups.

I’m too tired to explain this properly now but imagine the following

If you earned £100,000 at your job
It would allow you to have a car
It would allow you to have a house
It would allow you to have a boyfriend

It was literally said like this

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

At the very least all of this him being married with a family clears up for me the issue of 'why the heck don't they just get it on together?' that I couldn't understand from their dynamic before.

 

[katydid23]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> I think their relationship, whatever it was, is very important to the case. It showed how they bonded over the chaos of the resuscitations. And it showed her working hard to get praise and recognition from him, for her work in those life and death struggles. And she manipulated him for more sympathy and attention.

And she milked him for information about the other doctors and what they thought about her and the collapses. He was her protector in some ways. Like he was working undercover for her. I think it showed her as a manipulator. Even if he was married at the time, I think she may have been the one that was in control and had the leverage initially in this relationship.

 

[JosieJo]

Imo boyfriend or not doesn't matter ..its the lying on oath that matters ..plus that the prosecution feels the latter few attacks were carried out to try and get back the Dr onto the unit...which it does seem that way.
If guilty she was killing before the Dr came on the scene

 

[Tortoise]

Episode 38, Dr. A

www.mailplus.co.uk

partial transcript -

…we got more information about the relationship between doctor A and Lucy Letby. She told the court that doctor A is married and after she was removed from the neonatal unit she continued to meet him regularly, including at least five times in late May and early June 2017, almost a full year after she was moved into the admin job that she said she hated. They met for coffee at Starbucks, they went for a meal at an American themed restaurant close to the river Dee in Chester, they went shopping at Cheshire Oaks and they had time in Hartford, a small town 16 miles away. They also went to London together on June 8th 2017 and the jury were shown text messages between them arranging to meet up later that day, which they’d both signed off with a love-heart. But she insisted they didn’t stay overnight in London and doctor A was not her boyfriend.

NJ: The 8th of June 2017 was your away-day wasn’t it?

LL: No.

Mr Johnson pointed out the love-heart emojis and said “but he wasn’t your boyfriend”

LL: No, it’s not a relationship at all, it’s a friendship.

The court also heard that they planned to return to London at the end of September 2017 but they were forced to cancel the trip because doctor A had a medical appointment.

And later when Mr Johnson questioned her about why she’d written on that note found at her house by police, that she didn’t think she’d ever have a family, she appeared to accept that he was her boyfriend.

NJ: You had a good job working in the patient safety department at the Countess of Chester hospital.

LL: When you say good job it wasn’t a choice for me.

NJ: Different job still a good job.

LL: Yes.

NJ: You had a house, a car, a boyfriend –

LL: Yes.

NJ: Why would you never know what it was like to have a family?

LL: That’s how I felt at the time.

---


Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue

Mr Johnson says at that time 'you had a house, a car, a boyfriend' 'Yes', she says


12:27 PM · Jun 9, 2023

 

[Jayney404]

I could be totally wrong but I read it as dr choc married but separated. At one point he offers her his car to drive home. This would be risky if not separated as someone could see her driving and he’d have to explain to his wife where his car had gone. Not sure either way on this one.

 

[Sundial]

I agree it could seem that way, that it was an 'aha!' caught her out moment but since she's steadfastly and vehemently denied the married Dr A / Doc Choc is a relationship, and we know she had had a boyfriend previously who spoke as to her character, and she was socialising a lot, we still need clarification that she wasn't actually dating someone else surely?

I'm 50:50 on this and not convinced.

We can also question whether said bf who you mention here who spoke out about her character, was also the same person: dr choc.
JMO

 

[Lincoln34]

I think it's quite obvious that Dr A / Doc Choc certainly *could be* a 'boyfriend' but that wasn't locked down in the court today from what got said that I read in the commentary.

One would need to read the verbatim notes to be sure but I hope this issue is picked up on some more.

Also, people go a bit deranged when they're caught up in the intoxication of affairs and being love bombed so it's quite a big deal IMO in terms of her state of mind and going further to explain the possible attention seeking. We need to know ! JMO

I will wait for our stellar attendee to give chapter and verse re what actually went down in cross today. However if the Dr in Q has a wife and family - which it seems he has - I really don’t have any issue with him being given anonymity and I don’t think we should be given facts that identify him and hence the family.

Whatever transpired was between him and LL, and the family should be protected IMO.


I do agree that it was important for the prosecution to address that relationship to give a fuller picture of LL and to counter the victim narrative. I’m not surprised there was such a brief re-exam. When you are in a hole - STOP DIGGING! All MOO.

 

[katydid23]

I thought these were WhatsApp convos?

There were various platforms used. They for sure used FB messenger at one point but then What's App as well was mentioned.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Anyone know what the agreed upon facts + proven sequence of events is for the insulin cases. I’m baffled by the talk about someone injecting the insulin while the bag was hung And other bits as well.

eta, unless she said that wasn’t at all what had happened.

 

[Lincoln34]

Episode 38, Dr. A

www.mailplus.co.uk

partial transcript -

…we got more information about the relationship between doctor A and Lucy Letby. She told the court that doctor A is married and after she was removed from the neonatal unit she continued to meet him regularly, including at least five times in late May and early June 2017, almost a full year after she was moved into the admin job that she said she hated. They met for coffee at Starbucks, they went for a meal at an American themed restaurant close to the river Dee in Chester, they went shopping at Cheshire Oaks and they had time in Hartford, a small town 16 miles away. They also went to London together on June 8th 2017 and the jury were shown text messages between them arranging to meet up later that day, which they’d both signed off with a love-heart. But she insisted they didn’t stay overnight in London and doctor A was not her boyfriend.

NJ: The 8th of June 2017 was your away-day wasn’t it?

LL: No.

Mr Johnson pointed out the love-heart emojis and said “but he wasn’t your boyfriend”

LL: No, it’s not a relationship at all, it’s a friendship.

The court also heard that they planned to return to London at the end of September 2017 but they were forced to cancel the trip because doctor A had a medical appointment.

And later when Mr Johnson questioned her about why she’d written on that note found at her house by police, that she didn’t think she’d ever have a family, she appeared to accept that he was her boyfriend.

NJ: You had a good job working in the patient safety department at the Countess of Chester hospital.

LL: When you say good job it wasn’t a choice for me.

NJ: Different job still a good job.

LL: Yes.

NJ: You had a house, a car, a boyfriend –

LL: Yes.

NJ: Why would you never know what it was like to have a family?

LL: That’s how I felt at the time.

---


Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue

Mr Johnson says at that time 'you had a house, a car, a boyfriend' 'Yes', she says


12:27 PM · Jun 9, 2023

The American themed restaurant is Hickory’s - .Hickorys Starbucks is some way away from the River Dee. 15-20 mins walk .

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Imo boyfriend or not doesn't matter ..its the lying on oath that matters ..plus that the prosecution feels the latter few attacks were carried out to try and get back the Dr onto the unit...which it does seem that way.
If guilty she was killing before the Dr came on the scene

Are we sure of this though?

 

[Marantz4250b]

I've never seen reference to another boyfriend.

Me neither. One of the people commenting in an early article when she was first arrested said he knew LL through a former girlfriend but I'm not aware of any report that specifically mentions a boyfriend of LL saying anything.

NJ's comments about her having a boyfriend tends to suggest that she did have one (which to me at east gave the impression that it was not Dr Choc) but that has been given a different slant by the recent post from the member here who was at the court today.