UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #25

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sleuth777

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ADMIN NOTE:

This is a trial thread to discuss the trial only. It is not a general discussion thread.

Although WS is based in the USA, we do try to manage the various discussions according to laws of other countries.

As this trial is in the UK, the case is under sub judice so please stick to discussing the trial content without posting anything that violates the following principles:

Basically anything that may prejudice the accused’s right to a fair trial
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Reference: UK Contempt of Court Act 1981
 
Please continue here.
 
Marantz4250b said:
He needs to get an unambiguous answer to a definitive question, though.
Click to expand...
Well it's a compound question. The way it has been asked is if she agrees with the motive in the way it has been put by the prosecution, leaving no room for outright denial of the attacks. It would have been better to ask 'were you trying to get attention from doc choc?' but even that suggests she caused something and she is supposed to deny it was for attention.

I don't know why he touched on it at all, she'd already said no when it was put to her by the prosecutor.
 
BM was a bit boxed off after ll took the stand and made ludicrous paranoid assertions about consultants fitting her up, an avid handover note collecting hobby, and raw sewage washing around the hospital.

She also massively undermined him by accusing him of introducing non agreed evidence as agreed. I wonder how BM feels being the latest person thrown under the bus ‍
 
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Jayney404 said:
BM was a bit boxed off after ll took the stand and made ludicrous paranoid assertions about consultants fitting her up, an avid handover note collecting hobby, and raw sewage washing around the hospital.

She also massively undermined him by accusing him of introducing non agreed evidence as agreed. I wonder how BM feels being the latest person thrown under the bus ‍♀️
Click to expand...
Can't imagine he's thrilled. He's not allowed to speak to her though during cross, is he?
Not sure how serious it is to make such an error, if non serious, he may have taken the hit for her. If it was a genuine area and serious I doubt he'd throw himself under the bus for her.
 
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esther43 said:
Can't imagine he's thrilled. He's not allowed to speak to her though during cross, is he?
Not sure how serious it is to make such an error, if unserious, he may have taken the hit for her. If it was a genuine area and serious I doubt he'd throw himself under the bus for her.
Click to expand...
I wonder; if this all doesn’t go well in her favour whether there will be some kind of outcry, such as her own team made mistakes and then a mistrial etc. I’m interested In Wednesday though, we haven’t heard much if at all from the defence witnesses in support of her. Yet.
Moo
EBM
 
No i don’t think they could communicate so who knows if what she said had been agreed or even run past him beforehand. I agree though it would undermine his client to call her a liar if the evidence had been agreed. I think he was left with little scope for manoeuvre.

JMO
 
Sundial said:
I wonder; if this all doesn’t go well in her favour whether there will be some kind of outcry, such as her own team made mistakes and then a mistrial etc. I’m interested In Wednesday though, we haven’t heard much if at all from the defence witnesses in support of her. Yet.
Moo
EBM
Click to expand...
Yeah I did wonder if she might use it as a means to get any conviction dropped on appeal.
 
Sundial said:
I wonder; if this all doesn’t go well in her favour whether there will be some kind of outcry, such as her own team made mistakes and then a mistrial etc. I’m interested In Wednesday though, we haven’t heard much if at all from the defence witnesses in support of her. Yet.
Moo
EBM
Click to expand...

Would the fact that her KC made a statement to rectify it be enough to ensure no further action?
I have a feeling with all the delays and work behind closed doors the Judge is doing is upmost to ensure an appeal would not be successful
 
JosieJo said:
Would the fact that her KC made a statement to rectify it be enough to ensure no further action?
I have a feeling with all the delays and work behind closed doors the Judge is doing is upmost to ensure an appeal would not be successful
Click to expand...
Oh gosh could you imagine the heartache and dragged out agony for these families if this continues any longer than necessary- doesn’t bare thinking about. Personally for me, I feel the prosecution has a really strong case and has demonstrated it well with the evidence so far- for me there would have to be something pretty solid for the defence to bring up on Wednesday to even remotely balance the arguments out.

JMO
Moo if guilty etc
 
Kemug said:
I get the feeling that BM is not convinced of his client's innocence. Maybe he was at the start of the trial, but all the evidence we have heard may have changed his mind.
Click to expand...
I think he knew perfectly well ALL evidence before the trial.

Prosecution must present it to Defence.

Besides, his personal views don't matter, he has a job to do.

Emotional involvement is not advisable.

JMO
 
A few observations after reading through the last pages of posts:-

-Tortoise's schedule was eye opening for me.

-i don't think I had realised previously that originally all the collapses were at night when the parents would be more likely off the ward.

-the gap that then coincides with a gap in LL's nightshift is surely impossible to believe is a 'coincidence' when taken with the Facebook searches.

-then, over time, the attacks get more daring, start to happen in the day, when parents have literally just left the bedside.

-this fits with familiar pathology imo of increased risk taking, escalation etc.

-the text messages to the doctor telling him she wasn't next to the baby at the time, trying to implicate two other nurses who were... Chilling but also... Childlike.

-and last of all, this idea that she was searching these babies because 'something significant had happened to them'.....

-....i wonder (if guilty) if she felt the babies were 'chosen' by her, special because she selected them to be her victims. Perhaps she perceives herself as the only really significant person who exists....

-....Just as she speculated that she would be the only one thinking of them on their birthdays. Ie it's all about her.

IMO ETC.
 
JosieJo said:
Would the fact that her KC made a statement to rectify it be enough to ensure no further action?
I have a feeling with all the delays and work behind closed doors the Judge is doing is upmost to ensure an appeal would not be successful
Click to expand...
I agree. And that kerfuffle about the Agreed Upon evidence only affects one incident. If there is a mistrial it would only be on that one case, hopefully. The rest could go forward.
 
Cardgame said:
A few observations after reading through the last pages of posts:-

-Tortoise's schedule was eye opening for me.

-i don't think I had realised previously that originally all the collapses were at night when the parents would be more likely off the ward.

-the gap that then coincides with a gap in LL's nightshift is surely impossible to believe is a 'coincidence' when taken with the Facebook searches.

-then, over time, the attacks get more daring, start to happen in the day, when parents have literally just left the bedside.

-this fits with familiar pathology imo of increased risk taking, escalation etc.

-the text messages to the doctor telling him she wasn't next to the baby at the time, trying to implicate two other nurses who were... Chilling but also... Childlike.

-and last of all, this idea that she was searching these babies because 'something significant had happened to them'.....

-....i wonder (if guilty) if she felt the babies were 'chosen' by her, special because she selected them to be her victims. Perhaps she perceives herself as the only really significant person who exists....

-....Just as she speculated that she would be the only one thinking of them on their birthdays. Ie it's all about her.

IMO ETC.
Click to expand...
I would also add:

Her terror when the team from another hospital arrived.

As if she was suddenly yanked from her comfort zone,
her "kingdom where she ruled" not disturbed by anyone.

Reality suddenly hit hard.

Not that it deterred her :(

If guilty of course

JMO
 
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