UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #7

[BabaVanga]

She invested a huge amount of time and study into becoming a highly qualified nurse in the neonatal care system. Colleagues describe her as excellent, compassionate, etc. If guilty, how could someone keep up such an act throughout long shifts? Just my thoughts, as a completely baffled onlooker.

She reminds me of Elizabeth Holmes the Theranos fraudster who just got jailed. People thought she was excellent and compassionate etc too but she was just a complete lying fraud. You can’t tell what goes on in people mind unfortunately :/

 

[notsure]

She reminds me of Elizabeth Holmes the Theranos fraudster who just got jailed. People thought she was excellent and compassionate etc too but she was just a complete lying fraud. You can’t tell what goes on in people mind unfortunately :/

I know, but it never stops being astonishing.

 

[ColourPurple]

She invested a huge amount of time and study into becoming a highly qualified nurse in the neonatal care system. Colleagues describe her as excellent, compassionate, etc. If guilty, how could someone keep up such an act throughout long shifts?

Maybe she's done it all her life? Put on act, pretended to be compassionate... (If she's guilty obviously)

 

[ColourPurple]

2:11pm

An Alaris syringe driver video is displayed to the court, showing how a syringe dose can be electronically administered via infusion, at various rates. These rates can be locked.
It is similar to the Alaris pump, and has alarms if the syringe is not loaded properly, if the infusion has been placed 'on hold' for a certain length of time, if the rate has been changed but has not been confirmed, if the infusion is complete, if there is a power failure or low on battery, if there is an error message.
The alarm colour would be amber on the machine, and can be paused for two minutes.
An event log would be available on the machine for 24 hours.
The nurse confirms it was a standard machine used at the Countess of Chester Hospital, and was standard practice.
The nurse said the event log wouldn't be looked at routinely by staff.

LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 24

What I'm picking up from today's info and the info from Dr who said an alarm that sounded when a baby was low on oxygen could be paused for a set period of time, is... that they have various systems with alarms in place to prevent accidental harm to babies BUT the systems also all have an option to pause the alarm, which would enable somebody to deliberately harm the babies without the alarm sounding.

 

[Dotta]

What I'm picking up from today's info and the info from Dr who said an alarm that sounded when a baby was low on oxygen could be paused for a set period of time, is... that they have various systems with alarms in place to prevent accidental harm to babies BUT the systems also all have an option to pause the alarm, which would enable somebody to deliberately harm the babies without the alarm sounding.

The best equipment is worthless when there is intent to harm.
Allegedly.
Don't they say that "human link" is usually the weakest?

Moo

 

[Supernovae]

The clinical governance in this hospital is shocking. The fact that the insulin blood test results didn't trigger an investigation at the time is amazing to me. And the north-west has had more than its fair share of healthcare killers in the past, with Harold Shipman in Hyde and Victorino Chua at Stepping Hill, the latter having used insulin as a weapon only a few years earlier, so it would hardly be unprecedented.

 

[notsure]

Maybe she's done it all her life? Put on act, pretended to be compassionate... (If she's guilty obviously)

If there is an urge to harm, though, I imagine there are easier ways that don't involve spending years studying and working hard.

 

[Supernovae]

It's much more than exclusion.

Two of the babies had x-rays showing air, which Professor Owen Arthurs testified about. All five babies (A to E) had sudden colourful blotches and patches flitting around their bodies that none of the doctors or consultants at the hospital had seen before. All of the collapses were sudden and unexpected, in babies who had been stable at that point. Some of the babies improved between collapses which did not fit with infection status.

All MOO

The empirical basis for interpreting the significance those findings is much more limited than the insulin/c-peptide finding though, and in the case of the skin discolourations is subjective and being reinterpreted years after the events in question.

 

[ColourPurple]

If there is an urge to harm, though, I imagine there are easier ways that don't involve spending years studying and working hard.

If guilty, maybe she didn't discover that alleged urge or compulsion till she was in that job or maybe she did and it's one of the reason's she was attracted to the job. We know very little about her and even if she's found guilty I doubt that she'd give an honest explanation of her motives.

I don't see the fact that somebody studied or worked hard to get a certain job as any kind of proof that they couldn't be guilty of a crime once in that job. Every single one of the nurses and doctors studied and worked hard yet the medical experts have concluded that one of them deliberately poisoned babies with insulin and one of them deliberately injected babies with air.

 

[Supernovae]

I'm sure we are all curious why the info about salsa class and house viewings have been included...

It's tempting to project narrative onto the evidence in this case rather than drawing inferences from it. That said, if you take the view that she was responsible for the insulin contamination and that it was tactical to engender a crisis when she wasn't on shift, then the salsa texts could be seen as a way to bolster and draw attention to a strong alibi.

I don't know the exact timeline but iirc the other insulin case happened relatively close in time to another instance where she was "interrupted" (by Dr Jayaram) or at least challenged about her practice.

 

[Dotta]

If there is an urge to harm, though, I imagine there are easier ways that don't involve spending years studying and working hard.

I'm beginning to believe that she - allegedly - chose this career to please her parents.

In other words, was living "parents' dream".

It happens often, usually with children strongly attached to parents, those who hate to disappoint them.
(Didn't she still, as an adult, spend holidays with them?)

The fact, that she considered everyday caring for the babies as boring is significant - IMO.

But, eventually, the dissatisfaction and boredom took its toll.
Allegedly.
Everybody should follow his/her own path in life.

Moo

 

[notsure]

I'm beginning to believe that she - allegedly - chose this career to please her parents.

In other words, was living "parents' dream".

It happens often, usually with children strongly attached to parents, those who hate to disappoint them.
(Didn't she still, as an adult, spend holidays with them?)

The fact, that she considered everyday caring for the babies as boring is significant - IMO.

But, eventually, the dissatisfaction and boredom took its toll.
Allegedly.
Everybody should follow his/her own path in life.

Moo

And if she's innocent, that's all just your imagination, IMO. Nobody knows.

 

[notsure]

If guilty, maybe she didn't discover that alleged urge or compulsion till she was in that job or maybe she did and it's one of the reason's she was attracted to the job. We know very little about her and even if she's found guilty I doubt that she'd give an honest explanation of her motives.

I don't see the fact that somebody studied or worked hard to get a certain job as any kind of proof that they couldn't be guilty of a crime once in that job. Every single one of the nurses and doctors studied and worked hard yet the medical experts have concluded that one of them deliberately poisoned babies with insulin and one of them deliberately injected babies with air.

Or errors were made. Who knows?

 

[Dotta]

And if she's innocent, that's all just your imagination, IMO. Nobody knows.

True
My imagination sometimes runs rampant.
Oh well...

 

[notsure]

True
My imagination sometimes runs rampant.
Oh well...

I understand. It's human nature to create a scenario that fits our gut reactions.

 

[MsBetsy]

Or errors were made. Who knows?

It's hard to believe an experienced, highly trained nurse could make 22 near fatal or fatal errors in such a short time frame.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

Today’s evidence RE synthetic insulin having being given, being the only possible way that baby F’s blood results contained this level of insulin and insulin peptides is probably the strongest evidence I’ve heard so far in this trial. The fact that the defence didn’t cross examine dr Gibbs makes this evidence all the more damning IMO. You’d think that if there was another reason for the presence of this amount of insulin then the defence would have questioned this at their opportunity to cross examine. Instead, silence…..

 

[Dotta]

Today’s evidence RE synthetic insulin having being given, being the only possible way that baby F’s blood results contained this level of insulin and insulin peptides is probably the strongest evidence I’ve heard so far in this trial. The fact that the defence didn’t cross examine dr Gibbs makes this evidence all the more damning IMO. You’d think that if there was another reason for the presence of this amount of insulin then the defence would have questioned this at their opportunity to cross examine. Instead, silence…..

But didn't Defence say the doctor would be cross examined at later date?

 

[Mimi82]

Today’s evidence RE synthetic insulin having being given, being the only possible way that baby F’s blood results contained this level of insulin and insulin peptides is probably the strongest evidence I’ve heard so far in this trial. The fact that the defence didn’t cross examine dr Gibbs makes this evidence all the more damning IMO. You’d think that if there was another reason for the presence of this amount of insulin then the defence would have questioned this at their opportunity to cross examine. Instead, silence…..

Yes, similarly I see the evidence today as the strongest so far that somebody purposely harmed a baby & I imagine there will be more to come. The defence said he wasn’t going to challenge DR Gibbs on his evidence on this child today but he said he’d come this later, I think? Didn’t defence opening mention that this particular child’s cause of death was accepted? I’m guessing there is a “response” already in play from the defence to cover this but we just aren’t hearing it yet. Personally, so far, I haven’t heard anything as damning as today. There have been too many indefinite responses & too many maybes so far but today is the first time I’ve thought, there’s a high chance she’s guilty. Earlier, I’ve considered the evidence to be too maybe/could be/ possibly. I’ll continue to follow the case and await the defence and what they can bring.

 

[Kemug]

I don't see the fact that somebody studied or worked hard to get a certain job as any kind of proof that they couldn't be guilty of a crime once in that job. Every single one of the nurses and doctors studied and worked hard yet the medical experts have concluded that one of them deliberately poisoned babies with insulin and one of them deliberately injected babies with air.

Dr Shipman being a case in point.