UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #7

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Ruby12345 said:
The hospital was downgraded in July 2016 stopped caring for babies under 32 weeks and closed the ICU for premature babies.
Click to expand...
Maybe she was doing it to get back at the hospital in some way too? Did she have a grievance with them? It seems that she may have, allegedly, shut down the entire NICU, singlehandedly.
 
JosieJo said:
I do wonder how LL knew what the blood sugar was at handover but the designated nurse didn't
Click to expand...
Well she told police she must have looked at his chart, but that can't be true because the chart said 1.7, not 1.8.

I wonder if she'd checked him herself while everyone was busy at handover and then it was down further when the day nurse checked him.
 
A mother and father asked for their son to be moved to another hospital just hours before he was allegedly poisoned with insulin by nurse Lucy Letby, her murder trial has heard.

www.bbc.com

Lucy Letby: Parents asked for transfer before alleged poisoning, jury told

Nurse Lucy Letby is accused of trying to kill a twin boy by giving him insulin, a court hears.
www.bbc.com

Ms Letby is accused of attempting to kill the boy, referred to as Child F, at the Countess of Chester Hospital, in August 2015.

The [witness] nurse observed that Child F had been "nice and stable" at the start of her shift, but in the hours between midnight and 01:00 BST on 5 August his heart and breathing rate "suddenly" rose to a "concerning level".

Child F's blood glucose only returned to a safe level after a decision was taken to administer extra sugar.
He went on to make a full recovery and was later discharged, the court heard.
 
Tortoise said:
Well she told police she must have looked at his chart, but that can't be true because the chart said 1.7, not 1.8.

I wonder if she'd checked him herself while everyone was busy at handover and then it was down further when the day nurse checked him.
Click to expand...

The whole scenario is odd imo

A child with such low blood sugars ..as the nurse responsible you would check the blood glucose just before handover ...you wouldn’t want the first reading on the next shift to be awful and you have not checked it for 3 hours.

It sounds from the messages that they had had some sort of previous conversation about how often to check.
The nurse responsible sounded mortified
 
I think there's something really interesting in the 'patterns' chart I created a while back.

I'll re-post it for ease of reference

8 Jun 2015 - Twin Baby A - murder charge - boy - night - designated nurse
9 Jun 2015 – 9.58 am - FACEBOOK mother of A&B
10 Jun 2015 - Twin Baby B - attempted murder charge – girl - night - not designated nurse
10 Jun 2015 – 11.31 pm - FACEBOOK mother of A&B
Baby B's designated nurse's handover sheet found at LL’s home during police search
14 Jun 2015 - Baby C - murder charge – boy - night - not designated nurse
14 Jun 2015 – 3.32 pm - FACEBOOK parents Baby C
22 Jun 2015 - Baby D - murder charge - girl- night – not designated nurse
25 Jun 2015 – 9.50 pm – FACEBOOK mum of A&B
25 Jun 2015 – 9.51 pm – FACEBOOK parents of Baby D
4 Aug 2015 - Twin Baby E - murder charge - boy - night - designated nurse
5 Aug 2015 - Twin Baby F - attempted murder charge - boy - night - not designated nurse
6 Aug 2015 – 7.58 pm - FACEBOOK mother of E&F
23 Aug 2015 – FACEBOOK mother of E&F
2 Sep 2015 – FACEBOOK mum of A&B
7 Sep 2015 - Baby G - attempted murder charge – girl - night - not designated nurse
9 Sep 2015 – FACEBOOK – parents of A&B
14 Sep 2015 – FACEBOOK mother E&F
21 Sep 2015 - Baby G - 2 x attempted murder charges - day - designated nurse
21 Sep 2015 – FACEBOOK parents Baby G
21 Sep 2015 – minutes later FACEBOOK mother of E&F
21 Sep 2015 – minutes later FACEBOOK mother of one of the other babies listed in the charges
26 Sep 2015 - Baby H - attempted murder charge - girl - night - designated nurse
27 Sep 2015 - Baby H - attempted murder charge - night - not designated nurse
30 Sep 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder (not charged but chgd w/murder) - girl - day - designated nurse
Oct 2015 – (either 3rd, 10th, 17th, 24th or 31st) FACEBOOK father of Baby D
5 Oct 2015 – early hours – FACEBOOK mother of Baby I
5 Oct 2015 – early hours – FACEBOOK father of E&F
5 Oct 2015 – early hours – FACEBOOK mother of H
13 Oct 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder (not charged but chgd w/murder) - night - not designated nurse
14 Oct 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder (not charged but chgd w/murder) - (next) night - designated nurse
22 Oct 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder (not charged but chgd w/murder) - night - not designated nurse
23 Oct 2015 - Baby I - murder charge - (same) night - not designated nurse
After Baby I’s death LL sent a sympathy card to Baby I’s parents and kept a photo of it on her phone
5 Nov 2015 – FACEBOOK – mother E&F
27 Nov 2015 - Baby J - attempted murder charge – girl – night - designated nurse
Nov 2015 – FACEBOOK – parents Baby J
7 Dec 2015 – FACEBOOK – mother of E&F
25 Dec 2015 – 11.26 pm - FACEBOOK – mother of E&F
Jan 2016 – FACEBOOK – mother of E&F
10 Jan 2016 – (last time) FACEBOOK – mother of E&F
17 Feb 2016 - Baby K - attempted murder charge - girl - night – designated nurse
9 Apr 2016 - Twin Baby L - attempted murder charge – boy - day - unclear who the designated nurse was
9 Apr 2016 - Twin Baby M - attempted murder charge – boy - (same) day - unclear who the designated nurse was
Handwritten log of drugs administered to Baby M during his collapse was found at LL’s house and she had noted his collapse in her diary.
3 Jun 2016 - Baby N - attempted murder charge – boy - night – not designated nurse
15 Jun 2016 - Baby N - 2 x attempted murder charges - day – designated nurse
23 Jun 2016 - Triplet Baby O - murder charge - boy - day – designated nurse - also supervising a student nurse
24 Jun 2016 - Triplet Baby P - murder charge – boy - day – designated nurse – but care transferred – non-designated
25 Jun 2016 - Baby Q - attempted murder charge - boy - day – designated nurse
Handover sheet for morning of 25 Jun 2016 for Baby Q was found at LL’s home
Jul 2016 – LL transferred to an admin role
23 Jun 2017 – anniversary of Baby O’s death – FACEBOOK – Surname of Baby O
Apr 2018 – FACEBOOK – parents of Baby K
Other unreported dates – FACEBOOK – parents Baby G
3 Jul 2018 – LL’s first arrest.

I think last time I looked at it I noticed there was never more than one baby at a time who was having collapses. So it was never a case of babies overlapping.

Now I've noticed that it looks like there were (allegedly, currently unproven) target babies. All three of these babies were moved to different hospitals between collapses, recovered, and came back:

Baby G collapsed on 7 Sep 2015 and collapsed again, 2 weeks later, on 21 Sep 2015.

Baby I collapsed on 30 Sep, two weeks later on 13 & 14 Oct, another week later on 22 Oct and again on 23 Oct when she died.

Baby N collapsed on 3 Jun 2016 and again almost 2 weeks later on 15 Jun.

IMO this doesn't fit with an out-of-control or random urge to (allegedly) harm.

All IMO
 
Tortoise said:
I think there's something really interesting in the 'patterns' chart I created a while back.

I'll re-post it for ease of reference

8 Jun 2015 - Twin Baby A - murder charge - boy - night - designated nurse
9 Jun 2015 – 9.58 am - FACEBOOK mother of A&B
10 Jun 2015 - Twin Baby B - attempted murder charge – girl - night - not designated nurse
10 Jun 2015 – 11.31 pm - FACEBOOK mother of A&B
Baby B's designated nurse's handover sheet found at LL’s home during police search
14 Jun 2015 - Baby C - murder charge – boy - night - not designated nurse
14 Jun 2015 – 3.32 pm - FACEBOOK parents Baby C
22 Jun 2015 - Baby D - murder charge - girl- night – not designated nurse
25 Jun 2015 – 9.50 pm – FACEBOOK mum of A&B
25 Jun 2015 – 9.51 pm – FACEBOOK parents of Baby D
4 Aug 2015 - Twin Baby E - murder charge - boy - night - designated nurse
5 Aug 2015 - Twin Baby F - attempted murder charge - boy - night - not designated nurse
6 Aug 2015 – 7.58 pm - FACEBOOK mother of E&F
23 Aug 2015 – FACEBOOK mother of E&F
2 Sep 2015 – FACEBOOK mum of A&B
7 Sep 2015 - Baby G - attempted murder charge – girl - night - not designated nurse
9 Sep 2015 – FACEBOOK – parents of A&B
14 Sep 2015 – FACEBOOK mother E&F
21 Sep 2015 - Baby G - 2 x attempted murder charges - day - designated nurse
21 Sep 2015 – FACEBOOK parents Baby G
21 Sep 2015 – minutes later FACEBOOK mother of E&F
21 Sep 2015 – minutes later FACEBOOK mother of one of the other babies listed in the charges
26 Sep 2015 - Baby H - attempted murder charge - girl - night - designated nurse
27 Sep 2015 - Baby H - attempted murder charge - night - not designated nurse
30 Sep 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder (not charged but chgd w/murder) - girl - day - designated nurse
Oct 2015 – (either 3rd, 10th, 17th, 24th or 31st) FACEBOOK father of Baby D
5 Oct 2015 – early hours – FACEBOOK mother of Baby I
5 Oct 2015 – early hours – FACEBOOK father of E&F
5 Oct 2015 – early hours – FACEBOOK mother of H
13 Oct 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder (not charged but chgd w/murder) - night - not designated nurse
14 Oct 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder (not charged but chgd w/murder) - (next) night - designated nurse
22 Oct 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder (not charged but chgd w/murder) - night - not designated nurse
23 Oct 2015 - Baby I - murder charge - (same) night - not designated nurse
After Baby I’s death LL sent a sympathy card to Baby I’s parents and kept a photo of it on her phone
5 Nov 2015 – FACEBOOK – mother E&F
27 Nov 2015 - Baby J - attempted murder charge – girl – night - designated nurse
Nov 2015 – FACEBOOK – parents Baby J
7 Dec 2015 – FACEBOOK – mother of E&F
25 Dec 2015 – 11.26 pm - FACEBOOK – mother of E&F
Jan 2016 – FACEBOOK – mother of E&F
10 Jan 2016 – (last time) FACEBOOK – mother of E&F
17 Feb 2016 - Baby K - attempted murder charge - girl - night – designated nurse
9 Apr 2016 - Twin Baby L - attempted murder charge – boy - day - unclear who the designated nurse was
9 Apr 2016 - Twin Baby M - attempted murder charge – boy - (same) day - unclear who the designated nurse was
Handwritten log of drugs administered to Baby M during his collapse was found at LL’s house and she had noted his collapse in her diary.
3 Jun 2016 - Baby N - attempted murder charge – boy - night – not designated nurse
15 Jun 2016 - Baby N - 2 x attempted murder charges - day – designated nurse
23 Jun 2016 - Triplet Baby O - murder charge - boy - day – designated nurse - also supervising a student nurse
24 Jun 2016 - Triplet Baby P - murder charge – boy - day – designated nurse – but care transferred – non-designated
25 Jun 2016 - Baby Q - attempted murder charge - boy - day – designated nurse
Handover sheet for morning of 25 Jun 2016 for Baby Q was found at LL’s home
Jul 2016 – LL transferred to an admin role
23 Jun 2017 – anniversary of Baby O’s death – FACEBOOK – Surname of Baby O
Apr 2018 – FACEBOOK – parents of Baby K
Other unreported dates – FACEBOOK – parents Baby G
3 Jul 2018 – LL’s first arrest.

I think last time I looked at it I noticed there was never more than one baby at a time who was having collapses. So it was never a case of babies overlapping.

Now I've noticed that it looks like there were (allegedly, currently unproven) target babies. All three of these babies were moved to different hospitals between collapses, recovered, and came back:

Baby G collapsed on 7 Sep 2015 and collapsed again, 2 weeks later, on 21 Sep 2015.

Baby I collapsed on 30 Sep, two weeks later on 13 & 14 Oct, another week later on 22 Oct and again on 23 Oct when she died.

Baby N collapsed on 3 Jun 2016 and again almost 2 weeks later on 15 Jun.

IMO this doesn't fit with an out-of-control or random urge to (allegedly) harm.

All IMO
Click to expand...

I think the lack of overlap shows the same, this isn't (ALLEGEDLY) an overwhelming urge to kill/harm whichever baby is in front of her, it's very focused and then moves on to the next. If you just wanted to hurt as many people as possible you could, but this is seeing it through to the end so to speak, very focused.
 
LadyEdgeworth said:
I think the lack of overlap shows the same, this isn't (ALLEGEDLY) an overwhelming urge to kill/harm whichever baby is in front of her, it's very focused and then moves on to the next. If you just wanted to hurt as many people as possible you could, but this is seeing it through to the end so to speak, very focused.
Click to expand...
Right from Baby A, if this could be deemed relevant - because he collapsed and died within the first hour after handover -


“LL also told detectives that she knew Baby A and his twin sister Baby B were much wanted babies and his parents had waited a long time for them. The interviewing officer then asked “who told you that?” and she replied “it was known through the nursing handover we had”. She was then asked if that sort of information would change the way she would deal with parents, and she said “no, I would like to think we treat all the parents the same, but you bear in mind what they’ve gone through to get to this point”.”

The Trial of Lucy Letby, Episode 3: Baby A - The Mail​


I wonder if the ages of the parents had anything to do with the alleged crimes. We can't sleuth this or discuss specifics obviously. MOO
 
Last edited:
LadyEdgeworth said:
I think the lack of overlap shows the same, this isn't (ALLEGEDLY) an overwhelming urge to kill/harm whichever baby is in front of her, it's very focused and then moves on to the next. If you just wanted to hurt as many people as possible you could, but this is seeing it through to the end so to speak, very focused.
Click to expand...
I still can’t get my head around the (alleged) victimology. ‘Mission-oriented’ in some way perhaps. Definitely compulsive.
 
11:13am

The legal teams have now arrived in court, but there will be a little further delay before the case is expected to resume.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, November 29

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
www.chesterstandard.co.uk www.chesterstandard.co.uk
 
11:29am

The trial has now resumed.
Professor Sally Kinsey, a blood expert, is going to give evidence in relation to a number of the cases so far in the trial.

11:32am

Professor Kinsey confirms she was approached by Cheshire Police to look at several cases in the course of this trial. One is yet to come, while the other three are the cases of Child A and Child B (both twins) and Child F.
She also confirms she has looked at the records of Child F's twin brother, Child E, for the purpose of her investigation.
She has written reports for each case and set out the relevant backgrounds for each child, the court hears.


www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, November 29

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
www.chesterstandard.co.uk www.chesterstandard.co.uk
 
11:45am

Her first report is dated March 4, 2020, relating to Child A.
The court hears the conditions that Child A and Child B's mother had before her birth, and the decision to deliver the twins by C-section in June 2015.
The events of Child A's treatment at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit, subsequent collapse and death, are relayed in court.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, November 29

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
www.chesterstandard.co.uk www.chesterstandard.co.uk
 
11:57am

Child A's blood count was considered 'normal' for his age.
She said she had considered whether Child A's mother's auto-immune disease could have been a significant factor in the death of Child A.
Said auto-immune disease was a rare condition (affecting about 50 in 100,000 people) which affected the mother, which can cause increased blood clotting.
It is "well recognised" that pregnancy can cause issues, which can cause nutritional problems for babies in the womb, and a C-section can be required "to save the life of the mother and the child".
The court hears it can cause premature birth and blood clotting for the mother.
Nicholas Johnson KC, for the prosecution, asks: "Did the...syndrome pass on to [Child A or Child B]?"
Professor Kinsey: "No, that is not the case."

11:58am

Mr Johnson says there was concern the condition had passed from mother to son, but says Professor Kinsey is sure it did not.
"It didn't," Professor Kinsey replies.



www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, November 29

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
www.chesterstandard.co.uk www.chesterstandard.co.uk
 
12:02pm

Prof Kinsey says, for the conclusion of air embolus for Child A, the doctors' descriptions of skin discolourations on the baby had "cemented" her concerns.
She adds it is very "rare" and has not seen it in her experience, but she says she has read it from literature, and the skin discolurations are a "stark" feature.
Prof Kinsey says she is sure the cause of Child A's death does not have a haematological origin.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, November 29

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
www.chesterstandard.co.uk www.chesterstandard.co.uk
 
12:16pm

The case of Child B, a baby girl, is now being discussed.
The events of Child B's treatment at the neonatal unit and her collapse are relayed to the court. The jury is being shown clinical records which have previously been shown as part of the sequence of events and from doctor/nurse witnesses.
Prof Kinsey confirms she had noted what was written for Child B's skin discolouration on June 10 - the 'purple blotching'.
For all the blood results Prof Kinsey had seen, she said they were 'normal' for her age and the time the tests were taken.
There was, like Child A, no passing on of the mother's auto-immune disease to Child B, she adds.
The question of air embolus is raised. She said she had made similar observations to Child A.
The professor says there was no haematological evidence that could have caused Child B's collapse, and wanted to draw attention to the skin discolouration in the area around the chin, which she said was most likely a 'rash' caused when medical staff were trying to administer air.


www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, November 29

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
www.chesterstandard.co.uk www.chesterstandard.co.uk
 
12:24pm

The case now turns to Child E and Child F, and the sequence of events is relayed to the court.
Prof Kinsey says to determine whether Child E had a hereditary blood condition, the records of surviving twin brother Child F were examined.
The sequence of events is now relayed for Child E.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, November 29

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
www.chesterstandard.co.uk www.chesterstandard.co.uk
 
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