UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #8

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7 Sep 2015, Mon

2.15am - baby G vomited violently out of cot onto nearby chair & floor and stopped breathing while designated nurse was on her 1hr break. After vomiting the amount of milk aspirated from baby G’s stomach was equal to her feed. X-ray showed air in abdomen & intestines. (opening speech)

6.05am – 100mls of air was aspirated from baby G’s nasogastric tube - attempted murder charge (opening speech)

8am - LL's night shift ends

10.46am –
LL texted a colleague in relation to the care of a different child on the neonatal unit from the previous night.

1.33pm –
JJ-K: "How you doing x”
LL: "Had rubbish nights. x"
JJ-K: "Yeah gathered. x"
LL: "Thought someone would have told you x. Nothing else to say really, just hope they are both ok"
JJ-K: "Don't know ins and outs as tried to avoid it, needed a break. Found Thursday horrendous, not really slept since then. Hope you're ok"
LL: "That is understandable, won't tell you anything."
The conversation turned to LL asking which of the team had informed JJ-K about the events of the night-shift for Sept 6-7. After a few guesses, the name 'Ali', in the messages, is said to be correct.
JJ-K: "Ali. She not having a good time x"
LL: "No, I know. It's been awful for her but she's coped with it brilliantly and got back-up when needed etc x"
JJ-K: "Yeah I don't know how she's done it. She was fab on Thursday."

4.25pm –
The dayshift designated nurse for G is texting with LL for much of the afternoon. Much of the conversation relates to the condition of G, although messages are also exchanged in which the designated nurse is 'venting' about a number of colleagues, adding she was going to buy some sweets and eat them all herself.
LL: "Absolutely, don't share", with emoji of face with tongue sticking out.
LL: “How are parents?”
Nurse: "devastated but determined she’ll get through as always. Thought that if she got to 100 then they would feel confident she’d be fine."
LL responded: “Not well at all is she? Poor parents. Awful isn’t it. We’d all been sat at desk at start of the shift making banner”
Nurse: "Yup. Mary brought her cake in."

6pm –
LL to day shift designated nurse: “...Needs to go out”
Nurse: “Too sick to move”
LL: "Oh no. Any idea what's caused it?"
6.06pm -
Nurse: "Nope. Just seems to be a circ(ulatory) collapse. Chest seems clear."
LL: "Hmm, what can cause that? Is it that she’s been an extreme prem who had long-term inotrope and vent dependency and now she’s older and doing more for herself and it just takes a little bug or something to tip her over as no reserves and chronic lung etc."
Nurse: "We are going with sepsis, and yes to no reserves, she looks grim".


[LL not working]
10.56pm –
LL (having visited the unit briefly later that evening): "She looks awful, doesn't she"
Nurse (who had finished dayshift): "Yeah, going to APH [Arrowe Park Hospital]. On triple antibiotics."
LL: relays a blood gas reading for G to the nurse.
Nurse: "So no better. Damn. I have a bad feeling. At least they know APH"
LL: "Not looking good but yes least going to where she is known. Just hope they get her there."
Nurse: "Hmmmmm not sure they will."
LL: "On today of all days."
Nurse: “Yup poor parents.”
LL: “Yeah she’s declining bit by bit”


8 Sep 2015, Tue

Unknown Time -
Alisa Simpson: "Hi Lucy. Just to let you know that [G] has successfully been transferred out at 3am this morning to APH. She is stable and latest CBG [capilliary blood gas] has improved! Fingers crossed for her!"
LL: "That is good news. Thanks for letting me know"


9 Sep 2015 – Facebook parents of A&B
14 Sep 2015 – Facebook mother of E&F


19 Sep 2015, Sat

Unknown Time –
LL texted a colleague asking about the parents of twins A&B.
Colleague said they “seem good” and the baby’s father was “loving having [Baby B] home”.
LL: “That’s great. She looks like [the mother]!!



21 Sep 2015, Mon

8am – LL’s day shift

10.20am – baby G projectile vomited twice and stopped breathing

mid pm – baby G collapsed and her monitor was seen to be off. Baby G is severely disabled as a result of the two episodes - 2 x attempted murder charges


21 Sep 2015 – Facebook parents of baby G
21 Sep 2015 – minutes later Facebook mother of E&F
21 Sep 2015 – minutes later Facebook mother of another baby listed in the charges

Unknown time-
LL’s text to a colleague: [Baby G] "looked rubbish when I took over this morning then she vomited at 9 and I got her screened … mum said she hasn’t been herself for a couple of days”.
 
Mimi82 said:
The 6 month time frame is approximate. When another baby’s evidence is heard & a witness/expert testifies, Myers is allowed to cross each and every one. I’m suggesting that Myers might wait for whatever the witness/ expert testifies on another baby until he points out something about a past one. For example, he could try to suggest another baby who the prosecution say has been poisoned, hasn’t been. Or that the baby has died in a different manner and then it will not link in the same way to the last one so it wouldn’t show a pattern anymore. Just a possibility. I’m in no way thinking LL is or isn’t guilty but, I imagine from what I’ve read of the reports of Myers’ approach so far, that the defence are going along the route of, ‘the pattern presented by the prosecution’ isn’t there. I imagine that they will go down the route of, if this is a possible alternative in this case/ this isn’t more than coincidence in this part/ this didn’t happen in this way/ this baby isn’t proven to have died in this way/ LL isn’t proven to have done…/ etc… so with each case, they will dismantle/disprove/ suggest an alternative until, in the end there may be none or one or two or.. more cases were the Prosecution’s case/narrative/ suggestion doesn’t fit and the more or less they do this the more or less LL looks guilty as a murderer/ attempted murderer. Just from my perspective, at this point, there are lots of coincidences to convey her as guilty as sin but there are also lots of possibilities suggesting the babies could have died or nearly died for other reasons than intentional murder. As the reporting continues, the more I see that it’s pointing towards her being guilty but I feel that there’s still time to see more to say, “no that’s not right, that puts what was said earlier into question” etc. All just my opinion. I know nothing & I’m just going on what my instincts are as we read the daily reports & looking at the direction the defence is going in. In my opinion again, I firmly believe Myers believes he has a good chance of presenting enough doubt to free LL. Again, that isn’t me saying she should or shouldn’t be found not guilty but in some trials, the impression I get is that the barrister is doing their job to their best ability with fingers crossed they have a chance but I don’t get that vibe from Myers. All of my opinions/vibes/ thoughts mean absolutely nothing to anybody but that’s my response to the trial so far. I doubt there will be some “smoking hot” evidence to show her guilt & I think Myers will wait until the later stages to throw ultimate doubt in her guilt of the whole accusations. JMO.
Click to expand...
I see.
Time will tell.
As for "6 months time frame as approximate" I hope the Jurors will be given looong holidays afterwards to recuperate.

Moo
 
Tortoise said:
Latest text info inserted in the timeline


7 Sep 2015, Mon

4.25pm –
The dayshift designated nurse for G is texting with LL for much of the afternoon. Much of the conversation relates to the condition of G, although messages are also exchanged in which the designated nurse is 'venting' about a number of colleagues, adding she was going to buy some sweets and eat them all herself.
LL: "Absolutely, don't share", with emoji of face with tongue sticking out.
LL: “How are parents?”
Nurse: "devastated but determined she’ll get through as always. Thought that if she got to 100 then they would feel confident she’d be fine."
LL responded: “Not well at all is she? Poor parents. Awful isn’t it. We’d all been sat at desk at start of the shift making banner”
Nurse: "Yup. Mary brought her cake in."

6pm –
LL to day shift designated nurse: “...Needs to go out”
Nurse: “Too sick to move”
LL: "Oh no. Any idea what's caused it?"
6.06pm -
Nurse: "Nope. Just seems to be a circ(ulatory) collapse. Chest seems clear."
LL: "Hmm, what can cause that? Is it that she’s been an extreme prem who had long-term inotrope and vent dependency and now she’s older and doing more for herself and it just takes a little bug or something to tip her over as no reserves and chronic lung etc."
Nurse: "We are going with sepsis, and yes to no reserves, she looks grim".


[LL not working]
10.56pm –
LL (having visited the unit briefly later that evening): "She looks awful, doesn't she"
Nurse (who had finished dayshift): "Yeah, going to APH [Arrowe Park Hospital]. On triple antibiotics."
LL: relays a blood gas reading for G to the nurse.
Nurse: "So no better. Damn. I have a bad feeling. At least they know APH"
LL: "Not looking good but yes least going to where she is known. Just hope they get her there."
Nurse: "Hmmmmm not sure they will."
LL: "On today of all days."
Nurse: “Yup poor parents.”
LL: “Yeah she’s declining bit by bit”
Click to expand...

Bearing in mind how many times she is accused of attempting to kill Baby G, and the importance of that day being 100 days...I am really uneasy with LL having gone to the unit that night, seemingly to see how Baby G was, and to see what her latest blood gas reading had been !!.

I wonder how many other times she popped in to check on babies whilst not on shift?
 
Tortoise said:
Twasn't me.
Click to expand...

Ahh it was on the last thread, when the discussion centred on whether the age of the parents could have been a factor in why certain babies were targeted. Somebody said they thought it was more likely the babies were targeted where the ones that may have the biggest impact. ie It was more likely to be the fact that the parents had been waiting years for a baby, and that this could be their last chance, rather than just age itself.

IMO, well actually somebody else's orginal opinion but after today I tend to agree.. IF guilty etc.
 
ColourPurple said:
Bearing in mind how many times she is accused of attempting to kill Baby G, and the importance of that day being 100 days...I am really uneasy with LL having gone to the unit that night, seemingly to see how Baby G was, and to see what her latest blood gas reading had been !!.

I wonder how many other times she popped in to check on babies whilst not on shift?
Click to expand...
It's quite interesting to see how much sleep she didn't get after that night shift.

night shift 7.30 pm to 8 am
but not leaving work directly, still there writing up her nursing note at 9.15 am,

texting at
10.46 am
1.33 pm
4.25 pm
6 pm

visiting the unit that evening too, and then

texting at
10.56 pm


She seems quite wired.

IMO
 
By the way,
I checked the LL's texts once again and....
Surprise, surprise

The word RUBBISH was used describing Baby G.

Umm...
 
Last edited:
IF LL is guilty, I do wonder what her parents really think. Her mother in particular, as she would probably have spent the most time with her daughter. She may well have noticed little personality traits from an early age, and possibly slightly odd behaviours. She would never say, of course, but I do wonder. MOO
 
Tortoise said:
It's quite interesting to see how much sleep she didn't get after that night shift.

night shift 7.30 pm to 8 am
but not leaving work directly, still there writing up her nursing note at 9.15 am,

texting at
10.46 am
1.33 pm
4.25 pm
6 pm

visiting the unit that evening too, and then

texting at
10.56 pm


She seems quite wired.

IMO
Click to expand...
I noticed this earlier too; I was actually quite struck by the amount of times she was on her phone messaging during this period.

Another thing to consider, is prior to baby G becoming poorly (I believe the first event), todays hearing stated she was allegedly messaging a different colleague about another babies feed. Red herring perhaps, I just find it so peculiar someone who appears very articulate with medical jargon and giving all these diagnosis’s via text was previously needing to clarify a feed. It’s all quite bizarre IMO
 
katydid23 said:
It will be so hard for these jurors to accept and believe that this young, nice looking, hard working nurse would target innocent newborns, so relentlessly. It is impossible to imagine.
Click to expand...

Its hard to find this now on Internet because of ongoing case but Lucy's photo was used as part of NHS PR campaign years ago. I don't think that this can be seen as sub justice, nobody so far has referred to that photo in any attempt to identify her. Which they could have done.

Question for the nurses in UK, would you wear a face mask whilst attending to these babies in 2015, in ICU and baby units?
 
Dotta said:
By the way,
I checked the LL's texts once again and....
Surprise, surprise

The word RUBBISH was used describing Baby G.

Umm...
Click to expand...
Just a FYI. I am in no way defending LL but the word Rubbish is used as a slang word to mean 'Not good' In England. So when I read that, I was in no way concerned. How I read it was, that Baby G's appearance and maybe stats, looked rubbish aka not good. The context it was used in also helps.
As in: How did he look when you checked on him? He looked rubbish (not good).
 
Last edited:
Tortoise said:
It's quite interesting to see how much sleep she didn't get after that night shift.

night shift 7.30 pm to 8 am
but not leaving work directly, still there writing up her nursing note at 9.15 am,

texting at
10.46 am
1.33 pm
4.25 pm
6 pm

visiting the unit that evening too, and then

texting at
10.56 pm


She seems quite wired.

IMO
Click to expand...

She could also be trying to correct her sleeping pattern by staying awake, a bit like jet lag. I know when I’ve worked late shifts and then have a few days off I try and stay awake for as long as I possibly can before going to bed and then get up at a reasonable time in the morning.

The court heard Ms Letby was on the last of a run of four night shifts when the baby suddenly became ill in the early hours of 7 September 2015.

www.bbc.co.uk

Lucy Letby: Nurse made celebration banner for baby before alleged attack

Nurse Lucy Letby is accused of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 others.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc said:
Just a FYI. I am in no way defending LL but the word Rubbish is used as a slang word to mean 'Not good' In England. So when I read that, I was in no way concerned. How I read it was, that Baby G's appearance and maybe stats, looked rubbish aka not good. The context it was used in also helps.
As in: How did he look when you checked on him? He looked rubbish (not good).
Click to expand...
Out of numerous adjectives in English language she chose this particular one.

Freudian slip?

Moo
 
Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc said:
Just a FYI. I am in no way defending LL but the word Rubbish is used as a slang word to mean 'Not good' In England. So when I read that, I was in no way concerned. How I read it was, that Baby G's appearance and maybe stats, looked rubbish aka not good. The context it was used in also helps.
As in: How did he look when you checked on him? He looked rubbish (not good).
Click to expand...
It is a slang word but I don’t think I would use rubbish to describe how an ill person especially baby looks. Possibly just me but I would’ve used ‘looked terrible’.
 
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