UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #8

[LadyEdgeworth]

10:41am

The judge, Mr Justice James Goss, tells the jury one of their number has not come to court today as they are ill, so no evidence will be heard today.
Should the juror be well enough to attend tomorrow, there will be evidence heard.
The judge says had there been a full day, Tuesday would likely not have been a day of evidence heard, for other reasons.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, December 5

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

I feel this trial is going to end up being much longer than 6 months, MOO

 

[ColourPurple]

I see a pattern, I think.
Five out of seven times, for both charges she was assigned to the room in which the alleged charges took place, even when not the designated nurse. LL was still assigned to these room. The other two times she was assigned to a different room and thus not a designated nurse. These two charges are for Baby B and Baby C both in Room 1, while LL was assigned to Room 3 both times.
Room 3 is the quieter calm room where most babies are almost ready to go home, its almost like a nursery someone might have in a home. The nurses dont really go in unless there is some routine work going on and to care for the baby. Someone please correct me if I am wrong but I think I remember reading one of the text messages Mentioning room 3 being "boring"?
Plus, when police searched her home they found the handover sheet for Baby B.
This period between Baby B and C may be a more frenzied period? Taking sheets home and going into rooms she is not assigned to. Could there possibly be some anger for being assigned to Room 3 too?
This is of course all my opinion but I saw a pattern and even made a Venn diagram! I'm hoping someone else might see a pattern too.

We know she wasn't happy at not being in room 1 and asked to go back in to help her get over Baby A's death in there. but her request was refused. She is then accused of killing Baby C in room 1.
Then after Baby C's death, she was told repeatedly to go back to room 3 as it was the baby in room 3 that the shift leader had concerns about that night. It also says that another nurse was preparing the memory box (baby's footprints, lock of hair) for the family but had only partly done it before LL finished it, without being asked to.

a senior nurse on duty with alleged baby killer Letby had to tell her repeatedly to come out of a room Baby C's parents were spending their last moments with their son after she'd been involved in failed attempts to revive him.

The shift leader at the Countess of Chester Hospital said she wanted Letby, 32, to concentrate on caring for a baby boy she considered the most poorly newborn on the neonatal unit that night.

Instead, the woman now on trial for murdering seven babies and attempting to murder a further ten kept going into the family room occupied by the parents of Baby C...

Nurse B, who cannot be named for legal reasons, said her fellow Band 6 nurse Melanie Taylor was the one meant to offer the family a memory box of hand and foot prints and a lock of hair. But she had only done so 'partly'. The rest of the process was carried out, unbidden, by Letby.

Speaking from behind a screen at Manchester Crown Court, Nurse B said: 'When [Baby C] went to the family room with his parents and grandparents, I re-assigned everyone who had been in Nursery 1 to different babies.
I asked Lucy to focus back in N3 because I was still concerned about him. However, Lucy went into the family room a few times and I asked her to come out and to leave that family with Mel.'

Asked by Simon Driver, prosecuting, whether Letby had any reason to go in, she replied: 'Not that I can remember. It was more than once. I can't recall how many times.'

Lucy Letby: 'Baby killed by nurse showed signs of life for FIVE HOURS'

A baby allegedly murdered by nurse Lucy Letby showed intermittent signs of life for five hours after a medical crash team called off their desperate attempts to resuscitate him, a court heard today.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Marantz4250b]

10:41am

The judge, Mr Justice James Goss, tells the jury one of their number has not come to court today as they are ill, so no evidence will be heard today.
Should the juror be well enough to attend tomorrow, there will be evidence heard.
The judge says had there been a full day, Tuesday would likely not have been a day of evidence heard, for other reasons.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, December 5

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Call me cynical but wasn't there a rather significant sporting event going on last night???

 

[Marantz4250b]

I feel this trial is going to end up being much longer than 6 months, MOO

I think you may be right there.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Call me cynical but wasn't there a rather significant sporting event going on last night???

I'm a cynic too.. I'm sure the last time we had a juror illness it was during the day England were playing. But on the other hand, half my office seems to have a nasty cough at the moment. I hope we don't have much more delays

 

[ColourPurple]

10:41am

The judge, Mr Justice James Goss, tells the jury one of their number has not come to court today as they are ill, so no evidence will be heard today.
Should the juror be well enough to attend tomorrow, there will be evidence heard.
The judge says had there been a full day, Tuesday would likely not have been a day of evidence heard, for other reasons.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, December 5

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

The day after England played last night...wonder if it's the same juror who was off when England were playing...

 

[Legal]

I wonder if the whole trial by jury system needs to be rethought. Having 12 people give up their normal lives for a substantial period of time then having to lose entire days when one is ill, doesn't seem cost or time efficient. Plus there was another trial in the UK which has just been declared a mistrial after 5 weeks of testimony because one juror didn't follow the rules. It's just too easy nowadays with the internet for jurors to conduct their own research, not like the past when they would have known very little about the crime because the media wouldn't have been able to report anything.

And then there's the world cup...

 

[bbsaz]

Or there’s something very specific to room 1 - if so, what could it be ? I would like to know what the possible differences are in all aspects.

As said earlier, the sickest babies are in room 1, so less suspicious for the babies to have sudden collapses. But also, when we saw the video of the room, wasn't it a "gun shape", with the door at the bottom of what would be the handle? Therefore a room with a corner to hide around...

 

[May72031]

Is that three days overall, lost through juror illnesses?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I wonder if the whole trial by jury system needs to be rethought. Having 12 people give up their normal lives for a substantial period of time then having to lose entire days when one is ill, doesn't seem cost or time efficient. Plus there was another trial in the UK which has just been declared a mistrial after 5 weeks of testimony because one juror didn't follow the rules. It's just too easy nowadays with the internet for jurors to conduct their own research, not like the past when they would have known very little about the crime because the media wouldn't have been able to report anything.

And then there's the world cup...

Personally I totally agree. There’s been talk over the years of creating a large database of trained and available jurors, sorry I don’t have links but both aspects ~ the concept of ‘trial by jury‘ itself and how to form juries has been up for much debate.

 

[katydid23]

Personally I totally agree. There’s been talk over the years of creating a large database of trained and available jurors, sorry I don’t have links but both aspects ~ the concept of ‘trial by jury‘ itself and how to form juries has been up for much debate.

The thought of having 'professional jurors' really scares me though. It is hard to imagine they would be able to stay unbiased and objective once they listen to many trials and all that.

A 'jury of one's peers' is different than a paid employee of the court system. JMO

 

[Tortoise]

As said earlier, the sickest babies are in room 1, so less suspicious for the babies to have sudden collapses. But also, when we saw the video of the room, wasn't it a "gun shape", with the door at the bottom of what would be the handle? Therefore a room with a corner to hide around...

I noticed both nurseries in the video were the same design. I would say they are more T shaped, a sort of extended bay on both the left and the right after entering through the door.

I just thought of this from prosecutor's opening speech -


Dr Jayaram was standing at the nurses’ station compiling his notes. Although he did not have a view into Nursery 1, Dr Jayaram was aware the designated nurse was not there, a fact backed up by door swipe data. Lucy Letby was the only nurse in room 1, alone with Child K. "Feeling uncomfortable with this because he was beginning to notice the coincidence between the unexplained deaths and serious collapses and the presence of Lucy Letby, Dr Jayaram decided to check on where Lucy Letby was and where Child K was." "As he walked in, he could see Letby standing over Child K's incubator.




There was also this testimony about room 2 - the HDU

"Shift leader Ailsa Simpson said she was with Letby at the nursing station – directly opposite the high dependency unit – when she heard a projectile vomit at 2.15am. Both rushed into the room where Miss Simpson said she was greeted by alarms sounding from the monitor connected to Child G’s cot.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Yes I agree …. Professional jurors can never be a thing imho.
It must be a random selection of the public.
I do think this case will over run massively though and six plus months is a very very long time to be on jury duty especially as this case is so harrowing.
My worry is a hung jury.

 

[Tortoise]

The Trial of Lucy Letby, Episode 8: Baby F, Part 2: ‘His heart rate was high and his sugar was low, something wasn't right.’

www.mailplus.co.uk

In this episode Caroline and Liz explain what the prosecution experts say happened to Baby F, a premature twin boy who Lucy Letby allegedly tried to poison with insulin.

 

[Kemug]

I feel this trial is going to end up being much longer than 6 months, MOO

Yes indeed! We're nearly 2 months in now, but it feels just like yesterday that it started. And so many babies left to hear about . And only then the Defence gets its turn. But it's really gripping stuff , no-one's in danger of losing interest. I hope the poor jury will get a week off over Christmas? I think they need it if they are going to last the distance.

 

[Tortoise]

The Trial of Lucy Letby, Episode 8: Baby F, Part 2: ‘His heart rate was high and his sugar was low, something wasn't right.’

www.mailplus.co.uk

In this episode Caroline and Liz explain what the prosecution experts say happened to Baby F, a premature twin boy who Lucy Letby allegedly tried to poison with insulin.

Transcript of agreed summary of LL's police interviews re. Baby F from podcast -

"LL told the police that she remembered the twins because baby E's death had affected her. She denied deliberately harming baby F or injecting him with insulin, or putting the drug into his feed. Lucy Letby did however ask police whether they had checked baby F's nutrient bag and how they knew the insulin was in it at the time."

--

I don't know if I'm surprised or not that LL was asking questions like the last one to the police.

It's a bit niave to think the bag is needed to prove insulin poisoning that lasted from when the bag was hooked up to when it was removed.

It strikes me as a question of someone who thinks they can outsmart medical experts - it's not a clean denial - "how do you know" can be seen as an admission "you do know" - dangerous territory imo. I wonder if she was choosing to ignore advice to offer no comment. That would be a personality indicator, imo. It's like the written note "they have no evidence" which entertains the notion that there is evidence, but thinking they don't have it.

All moo

 

[katydid23]

I noticed both nurseries in the video were the same design. I would say they are more T shaped, a sort of extended bay on both the left and the right after entering through the door.

I just thought of this from prosecutor's opening speech -


Dr Jayaram was standing at the nurses’ station compiling his notes. Although he did not have a view into Nursery 1, Dr Jayaram was aware the designated nurse was not there, a fact backed up by door swipe data. Lucy Letby was the only nurse in room 1, alone with Child K. "Feeling uncomfortable with this because he was beginning to notice the coincidence between the unexplained deaths and serious collapses and the presence of Lucy Letby, Dr Jayaram decided to check on where Lucy Letby was and where Child K was." "As he walked in, he could see Letby standing over Child K's incubator.




There was also this testimony about room 2 - the HDU

"Shift leader Ailsa Simpson said she was with Letby at the nursing station – directly opposite the high dependency unit – when she heard a projectile vomit at 2.15am. Both rushed into the room where Miss Simpson said she was greeted by alarms sounding from the monitor connected to Child G’s cot.

How common is it for newborns to have projectile vomiting? Anyone know?

 

[squish]

How common is it for newborns to have projectile vomiting? Anyone know?

Babies vomit a lot and it’s not necessarily important, projectile vomiting can be a sign of something more significant. I don’t know how common it is but I would imagine more common than at other ages.

 

[katydid23]

Babies vomit a lot and it’s not necessarily important, projectile vomiting can be a sign of something more significant. I don’t know how common it is but I would imagine more common than at other ages.

I remember mine doing a lot of small 'up chucking' as tiny infants. Some minor vomiting. I just never saw a very tiny infant projectile vomiting. Toddlers, yes unfortunately.

I was just wondering if it was common in the NICU for babies to projectile vomit.