UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #35

[ColourPurple]

Good one. Tbh i didn't know the extent of the datix forms but a quick g search and lots there. Yeh seems like a panicked lucy trying to throw shade at other folks to take the heat off. Mr Johnson said one of them later found to be false was made so if believed it would rule out AE. That's quite calculated.

Oh I was thinking @Honeybirdette meant the other datix report she made about the missing port bung that she said could cause an air embolism .

I was hoping we’d find out in the trial whether Doc Choc had heard about the consultants air embolism theory and tipped her off, as the timing of the bung datix was very convenient. The consultant’s meeting where air embolism was first brought up was on 29th June and the next day on the 30th June LL submitted a datix saying she’d found a bung missing on a port that was an air embolism risk!

 

[iamshadow21]

Quotes RSBM.
Nothing even hinting at such during her childhood has come out, though. What if she wasn't ever particularly odd? What if the murders of babies was actually out of character from the rest of her life?

IMO.

I should have been more clear - I wasn't speaking specifically about Letby, but about a hypothetical child with an interest in something that most would think morbid in a child of tender tears.

An expressed interest in heath care would disguise that oddness into something acceptable and even admirable.

MOO

 

[ColourPurple]

I listened to the latest podcast yesterday and I was stunned to be perfectly honest with Myers.
Why on earth was Shoo Lee put forward as a witness when he hadn’t seen the medical records of any of the babies in this case ?
I do not understand how any Counsel especially of his calibre would even think that was acceptable.
I’m staggered, had he completely lost the plot at this stage ?

Worth noting too that despite all the LL fans insisting that the insulin test was invalid, he did not try to argue that as a reason for an appeal

 

[Honeybirdette]

Oh I was thinking @Honeybirdette meant the other datix report she made about the missing port bung that she said could cause an air embolism .

I was hoping we’d find out in the trial whether Doc Choc had heard about the consultants air embolism theory and tipped her off, as the timing of the bung datix was very convenient. The consultant’s meeting where air embolism was first brought up was on 29th June and the next day on the 30th June LL submitted a datix saying she’d found a bung missing on a port that was an air embolism risk!

Yes that’s the one I meant. The bung missing which she made a reminder to herself to report it that same evening after getting the phone call. It’s just too convenient. And when you add up all of these small details from all throughout the trial there is no doubt tbh

 

[callmehenry]

It's strange because I've always seen her as an odd bod. Not your average young woman of her age.

I see her as an oddbod too but I like to refer to her as the beige beast

 

[bbsaz]

Yes, I tend to agree with this. I can see why her socialising was mostly with older women as that was the nature of the staff at work. She wasn't from Chester so wouldn't have been around her old school mates and suchlike. She worked a lot so it's going to follow that most of the people she socialised with would have been workmates, I think.

She did socialise with people her own age, though, as there's that video which was released of them all being out and quite drunk - or at least some of them as I don't think Lucy was particularly hammered. That was her old school friends, I think.

The regular holidays with parent's is kinda weird, I'll give you that. But - she also went to Ibiza which is a very "young person" thing to do.

She went to Uni there though, and most of the students on that course are from the local area. Not many travel for that course. Also, most of the student nurses get jobs in the local hospital after their placements, so there would have been many fellow nurses from her course still in the area and working at the Countess. Yet her friends who she socialises with are Mum figures and Dr Choc is a father figure.
Obviously that doesn't make you a murderer, but I agree that it is a bit odd. As Josie says, Salsa and cocktails with older colleagues is not the profile of the typical newly qualified nurse.
Before anyone jumps on me, I worked at the Uni for over a decade, in that period, so I know the typical profile.

 

[Parker Knoll]

The enquiry will be very enlightening as to who knew what and when.
If Doc Choc was worried at giving evidence at the trial last year he better brace himself for September.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I don't think doc choc will be getting any bad press, think he was hoodwinked and maybe a victim himself. I very much doubt he told her about the AE theory. Think that would entail a "them and us" dynamic which I don't think existed. I know he informed her a bit but no more than what I would expect from a friend.

Interesting stuff on reddit atm put what credence to it you will but under the topic of LL and headlined "letby speaking" really interesting accounts of her including from Someone claiming to have grown up around her. One said the whole "quiet" and "meek" output is a pure act which I think is true. Her actions and some words are bold as brass which imo belies confidence.

Eta. One says she's quite fronted which in my experience often correlates with insincerity and fakeness. A mask if you will and one which she is hiding behind. Her last words were a part of that front imo. A projected image forwards and a truth behind.

 

[ColourPurple]

Yes that’s the one I meant. The bung missing which she made a reminder to herself to report it that same evening after getting the phone call. It’s just too convenient. And when you add up all of these small details from all throughout the trial there is no doubt tbh

I think the one about losing peripheral access is made the day after the phone call and then the bung one is made the day after the consultants’ meeting a couple of days later.

Really could do with @Tortoise , with her encyclopaedic knowledge of the case to confirm dates though lol .

 

[ColourPurple]

I don't think doc choc will be getting any bad press, think he was hoodwinked and maybe a victim himself. I very much doubt he told her about the AE theory. Think that would entail a "them and us" dynamic which I don't think existed. I know he informed her a bit but no more than what I would expect from a friend.

Interesting stuff on reddit atm put what credence to it you will but under the topic of LL and headlined "letby speaking" really interesting accounts of her including from Someone claiming to have grown up around her. One said the whole "quiet" and "meek" output is a pure act which I think is true. Her actions and some words are bold as brass which imo belies confidence.

Well we know that he was ok with forwarding her confidential emails at the time so I think if he was aware of the air embolism theory he would have had no problem telling her. Not sure if he would have been privy to what was discussed in that particular consultants’ meeting though.

Re the person claiming to have grown up with her … did we ever find out if the bloke who gave a YouTube interview claiming to be her friend who had visited her in prison was genuine ? He made a comment about how he thought something specific from her past was a possible reason for her actions. He could have just been an attention seeker though .

 

[Sweeper2000]

Well we know that he was ok with forwarding her confidential emails at the time so I think if he was aware of the air embolism theory he would have had no problem telling her. Not sure if he would have been privy to what was discussed in that particular consultants’ meeting though.

Re the person claiming to have grown up with her … did we ever find out if the bloke who gave a YouTube interview claiming to be her friend who had visited her in prison was genuine ? He made a comment about how he thought something specific from her past was a possible reason for her actions. He could have just been an attention seeker though .

What we're those emails again? I know there was a bit but not sure about the depth and level of security attached to it,?

Yeh think that guy was fake. Interview with the tattoed ex prisoner right?

 

[ColourPurple]

What we're those emails again? I know there was a bit but not sure about the depth and level of security attached to it,?

Yeh think that guy was fake. Interview with the tattoed ex prisoner right?

On July 6, the doctor messaged Letby: "You need to keep this to yourself. The meeting this afternoon looked at everything with Baby O & Baby P from birth onwards. [NB. Name of Baby O and P redacted]

"We reviewed everything. Room / meds / medical reviews and actions. We looked at all documentation med & nur. If you've any doubt about how good you are at your job - stop now.

"The documentation was perfect, everybody commented about the appropriateness of your request for a review of Baby O following vomit. (name of baby O redacted). Your documentation of the resus / incubation / drugs was faultless.


"There is absolutely nothing for you to worry about. Please don't.

"There are going to be some recommendations based on staffing / kit but there was no criticism of either resus.

"This is staying quiet until has been to exec's. We're looking at [third triplet] care on Thur.

"E had nothing but good things to say about you."

Letby replied: "Ok......I Really appreciate you telling me - it won't go any further. I was one member of a huge team effort, but you know I've been carrying the worry of the 'what if I wasn't enough' - it's reassuring to hear that it doesn't appear that anything could have been done differently, or that I didn't act on or do something I should have. Thank you."

Letby is sent an email, made by Countess Dr Stephen Brearey, advising that the deaths of Child O and Child P were likely to result in an inquest, as the cause of both deaths was 'unexplained'.

Letby asked: "It's a bit of a worry if it's going that far. Do you think I'll be involved?" Letby is reassured: "Probably not."

The doctor added: "I know you won't say anything - this email has to stay between us, is that ok?"

Lucy Letby 'worried' she was 'in trouble' over baby deaths

LUCY LETBY messaged a nursing colleague: "If they have nothing or minimal on me they'll look silly" during a Countess of Chester Hospital…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Parker Knoll]

He kept her in the loop for sure.
He was VERY useful to her.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Hmmmm I'll wait on that I think. However you could certainly gauge he would have told her if that review looked bad on her and she was going to be investigated. Yeh I do believe he was useful to her as well, like having a spy really. I'm just dubious that once she was suspected he would have continued with the relationship. I think he's got her back so long as she didn't do anything.

 

[Moll]

The discussion goes on in the press:

Lucy Letby: killer or coincidence? Why some experts question the evidence

Exclusive: Doubts raised over safety of convictions of nurse found guilty of murdering babies

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sweeper2000]

The discussion goes on in the press:

Lucy Letby: killer or coincidence? Why some experts question the evidence

Exclusive: Doubts raised over safety of convictions of nurse found guilty of murdering babies

www.theguardian.com

That's all quite serious but mostly based seemingly on incomplete information. They have seen some of the med notes but all? Are they aware this individual has falsified notes with a view to hide the method ? Are they aware of her strangeness? Can they explain how some babies went off like a light switch?

I personally don't give a damn about the timetable, it means nothing really. Yes a nurse who was working was working at the same time as these babies collapsed but that means nothing. She displayed culpability when falsifying notes with the datix forms.

 

[joltz]

The discussion goes on in the press:

Lucy Letby: killer or coincidence? Why some experts question the evidence

Exclusive: Doubts raised over safety of convictions of nurse found guilty of murdering babies

www.theguardian.com

It's absolutely infuriating. Most of these people have appeared out of the woodwork well after the verdicts. The evidence as a whole is overwhelming. It's the smaller details that do it for me, such as Letbys texting around the deaths, her obsession with getting back to room 1, her colleagues testimony naming her as being cotside alone when the alarms sounded etc.

Most of the people arguing about "poor Lucy" only seem to be aware of the insulin, staff chart etc. I think you really needed to watch the trial unfold live to. There was so much detail.

 

[bbsaz]

The discussion goes on in the press:

Lucy Letby: killer or coincidence? Why some experts question the evidence

Exclusive: Doubts raised over safety of convictions of nurse found guilty of murdering babies

www.theguardian.com

My Dad just sent me that which resulted in a big rant back. Honestly, I swear the people who wrote these articles attended a different trial (or didn't attend at all).

 

[Moll]

My Dad just sent me that which resulted in a big rant back. Honestly, I swear the people who wrote these articles attended a different trial (or didn't attend at all).

Didn't attend this one, I agree.
One detail: they keep saying much was made of the 'I did this' notes, but as I recall the prosecution made much less of them than many of us expected - considering they are a strange thing for an innocent person to write, however much stress they were under. They were just one small part of the case, as presented by the prosecution.

 

[ColourPurple]

.

It's absolutely infuriating. Most of these people have appeared out of the woodwork well after the verdicts. The evidence as a whole is overwhelming. It's the smaller details that do it for me, such as Letbys texting around the deaths, her obsession with getting back to room 1, her colleagues testimony naming her as being cotside alone when the alarms sounded etc.

Most of the people arguing about "poor Lucy" only seem to be aware of the insulin, staff chart etc. I think you really needed to watch the trial unfold live to. There was so much detail.

Yes after following the trial “live” on here I am in absolutely no doubt that she’s guilty and seeing the videos of the court transcripts of her cross examination just confirmed that for me.

It’s actually scary that thanks to the internet, a handful of people with their own agendas, who were so convinced of their own opinions that they tried to intervene in the original trial and were warned about potential contempt of court, have managed to build up a following! As you say, the majority of people who protest that she’s innocent didn’t even follow the trial and their introduction to the case was from reading heavily biased pro-Letby propaganda. Plus the established online conspiracy theory community provided a ready made audience for the LL conspiracy theories, so a lot of those who believe LL is innocent also believe in various other conspiracy theories… from faked moon landing to chemtrails. That some medical professionals have now been taken in by this misinformation is sad.

Shout out to those people on Twitter/X who actually followed the trial and try to point out the errors, misinformation and downright lies that the Letby fan club spread, and get called trolls and bots in the process …for the unforgivable crime of believing the evidence from the trial.They have far more patience than I would have if I interacted with them.

I think the anonymity of the babies in the trial has made this seem like a victimless crime to some and has led to some people showing empathy towards LL instead of the real victims. Seeing people referring to a sadistic serial killer of babies as “poor girl” and referring to how she has had her childbearing years stolen from her is absolutely sickening. Then there are the often libellous accusations being made against the consultants and medical experts by the LL fans and even some horrible comments about the bereaved parents.