Found Safe UK - Owami Davies, 24, from Chafford Hundred, Essex, last seen in Croydon, Surrey, 6 Jul 2022

[Whitehall 1212]

I am not quite so sure they have deliberately been trying to protect her dignity . Until the last day or so it has been treated in public as a kidnap / murder with 5 men being arrested and subsequently bailed.

The police have consistently said that OD is missing person enquiry. That statement is very important and must not be misunderstood.

Don't get too caught up in what you imagine the required level of suspicion of kidnap and murder has to be for an arrest.

I strongly suspect that the men arrested, were the last persons identified as being in the company of OD in the period before she first went off the radar in Croydon. A couple of them may have been in her vicinity when all contact was lost.....I can't guess specifics.....hence the arrest on 'suspicion' of murder.

Essentially the police have to investigate their concerns for OD's welfare and the arrested men were 'identified' as being with her at around the time she was last seen.

The weight of evidence for arrest is low and very much based on circumstances. It need be nothing more than 'reason' to suspect the offence has been committed and reason to suspect the arrested person of having committed it.

The concern is for OD's welfare. Police will arrest if they have the suspicion, the grounds and it is proportionate to do so to for 'prompt and effective investigate of the offence in question and to seek to identify where a vulnerable person reported missing is.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Pleased to see the new police info as it may spur on a sighting and help for her. Very sad. Seems that they have been trying to protect her dignity, both police and family/friends, for as long as they can.
I believe the photo of her was from a police bodycam who didn’t realise who she was at the time and spoke to her. You can’t force a person to get help unless they are I’ll enough to be sectioned. I’m still not convinced she is?

Police have powers under s.136 of the Mental Health Act to detain anyone in a public place and take them to a place of safety (hospital....no longer a police station I believe), for professional assessment by a clinician.

I recall using the power twice, for a lass who had cut her wrists to shreds to lawfully keep her there to do first aid and whilst waiting for the ambulance and the other to a guy who had to be talked down from jumping off a bridge.

 

[Dotta]

I wonder if these men accused of kidnap/murder
(IF INNOCENT) can sue Police for "moral damages"?

I mean - isn't their reputation ruined?

I'm really curiouos.

But, of course, they may still be charged.

Nothing is sure in this case.

MOO

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I wonder if these men accused of kidnap/murder
(IF INNOCENT) can sue Police for "moral damages"?

I mean - isn't their reputation ruined?

I'm really curiouos.

But, of course, they may still be charged.

Nothing is sure in this case.

MOO

If the arrest was lawful and necessary, and the grounds created reasonable suspicion then there is no problem.

We can be quite certain that this was the case as a Magistrate had to authorise continued detention beyond 36 hours in all five cases, I believe.

Be assured the Magistrate would have satisfied himself/herself that the arrests were lawful before authorising continued detention.

 

[Cherwell]

I wonder if these men accused of kidnap/murder
(IF INNOCENT) can sue Police for "moral damages"?

I mean - isn't their reputation ruined?

I'm really curiouos.

But, of course, they may still be charged.

Nothing is sure in this case.

MOO

While close neighbours may be aware of the identity of the men arrested,they haven't been publicly named.

If you are familiar with the Joanna Yeates case, you'll remember that her landlord was arrested. He tried to sue the police for damages but failed. They had very good reasons to arrest him and he was never named by the police, only by the media. He did win damages from some of the newspapers who outed and libelled him, but that was quite different.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

While close neighbours may be aware of the identity of the men arrested,they haven't been publicly named.

If you are familiar with the Joanna Yeates case, you'll remember that her landlord was arrested. He tried to sue the police for damages but failed. They had very good reasons to arrest him and he was never named by the police, only by the media. He did win damages from some of the newspapers who outed and libelled him, but that was quite different.

Respectfully, I think the grounds for arrest of Mr Jefferies were somewhat dubious and included an unhealthy dose of negative bias, unconscious or otherwise, of Mr Jeffries slightly eccentric and academic character.

There is no doubt that police bail remained in place longer than was necessary, when it should have been cancelled. Partly as a consequence of this Mr Jefferies received a £50,000 payout and an apology from Avon and Somerset Police for the loss of rental income and damage to property that was caused during their investigations.

The reality is that unless one has good legal representation then the police legal services will rebuff any claim for compensation. Mr Jeffries had very good friends in useful places, who arranged for top drawer legal representation.

Mr Jeffries himself appears to be exceptionally intelligent with a sublime command of the English language, in much the same way as that of a barrister.

He is not a man to be trifled with and I think Avon and Somerset Police recognised this and were all for damage limitation.

Christopher Jefferies told 'sorry' by police over arrest distress

Christopher Jefferies, former landlord of murder victim Jo Yeates, receives a letter from police apologising for the "hurt" he suffered after his arrest.

www.bbc.com

 

[Cherwell]

Respectfully, I think the grounds for arrest of Mr Jefferies were somewhat dubious and included an unhealthy dose of negative bias, unconscious or otherwise, of Mr Jeffries slightly eccentric and academic character.

There is no doubt that police bail remained in place longer than was necessary, when it should have been cancelled. Partly as a consequence of this Mr Jefferies received a £50,000 payout and an apology from Avon and Somerset Police for the loss of rental income and damage to property that was caused during their investigations.

The reality is that unless one has good legal representation then the police legal services will rebuff any claim for compensation. Mr Jeffries had very good friends in useful places, who arranged for top quality legal representation.

Mr Jeffries himself appears to be exceptionally intelligent with a sublime command of the English language, in much the same way as that of a barrister.

He is not a man to be trifled with and I think Avon and Somerset Police recognised this and were all for damage limitation.

He was a keyholder to the victim's flat so an obvious suspect, as he had means and opportunity.
There was more though. Were you aware that a bloodstained trainer was found in his flat? That wasn't widely reported. After testing it was eventually found to have no connection with the victim.

But we are way off topic now. I was just supporting your statement "If the arrest was lawful and necessary, and the grounds created reasonable suspicion then there is no problem."

 

[Whitehall 1212]

He was a keyholder to the victim's flat so an obvious suspect, as he had means and opportunity.
There was more though. Were you aware that a bloodstained trainer was found in his flat? That wasn't widely reported. After testing it was eventually found to have no connection with the victim.

But we are way off topic now. I was just supporting your statement "If the arrest was lawful and necessary, and the grounds created reasonable suspicion then there is no problem."

In fact it brings it back on topic!

It demonstrates that where there is suspicion of the most serious crimes having taken place then any of us are liable to arrest if we happen to be in what may a perfectly legitimate position, which by its nature indicates that we had means and opportunity.

The need for prompt and effective investigation, search, recovery and preservation of evidence is often so necessary at an early stage of such investigations that any one of us could be the next Mr Jefferies.

This may apply to the men who were arrested and bailed in connection with OD's disappearance.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Does anyone have any theories about why OD might have been travelling regularly from her home to Croydon and West Ham?

 

[Allabouttrial]

Does anyone have any theories about why OD might have been travelling regularly from her home to Croydon and West Ham?

I do have one thought that nobody's mentioned, but I really don't want to put it out there, especially as it's speculation not based on any facts.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Respectfully, I think the grounds for arrest of Mr Jefferies were somewhat dubious and included an unhealthy dose of negative bias, unconscious or otherwise, of Mr Jeffries slightly eccentric and academic character.

There is no doubt that police bail remained in place longer than was necessary, when it should have been cancelled. Partly as a consequence of this Mr Jefferies received a £50,000 payout and an apology from Avon and Somerset Police for the loss of rental income and damage to property that was caused during their investigations.

The reality is that unless one has good legal representation then the police legal services will rebuff any claim for compensation. Mr Jeffries had very good friends in useful places, who arranged for top drawer legal representation.

Mr Jeffries himself appears to be exceptionally intelligent with a sublime command of the English language, in much the same way as that of a barrister.

He is not a man to be trifled with and I think Avon and Somerset Police recognised this and were all for damage limitation.

Christopher Jefferies told 'sorry' by police over arrest distress

Christopher Jefferies, former landlord of murder victim Jo Yeates, receives a letter from police apologising for the "hurt" he suffered after his arrest.

www.bbc.com

I can vouch for the legal rep he had - a member of my family! Very, very top notch

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I can vouch for the legal rep he had - a member of my family! Very, very top notch

Excellent. I need a good lawyer.

 

[proclee]

Does anyone have any theories about why OD might have been travelling regularly from her home to Croydon and West Ham?

I imagine it could just be as a link from Croydon/London back into Grays.. I live kind of local to Croydon in Bromley and West Ham is the station I would use if I was getting a train into Thurrock/That part of Essex. Also the district line calls at West Ham from Wimbledon, maybe she travels by Tram from Croydon to Wimbledon and then continues on her journey that way

 

[martinwatts5]

I just can’t believe that this would have gone on this long if she is regularly travelling by train in a bad state and even approaching people.

 

[Skigh]

I just can’t believe that this would have gone on this long if she is regularly travelling by train in a bad state and even approaching people.

It would be good to know when the last reported sighting was and whether British Transport Police have cctv of her travelling on the trains.

 

[ST3anonymous]

Police have powers under s.136 of the Mental Health Act to detain anyone in a public place and take them to a place of safety (hospital....no longer a police station I believe), for professional assessment by a clinician.

I recall using the power twice, for a lass who had cut her wrists to shreds to lawfully keep her there to do first aid and whilst waiting for the ambulance and the other to a guy who had to be talked down from jumping off a bridge.

Good info, thank you.
As far as we are aware she’s not harming herself (yes she is in a dangerous situation, especially if intoxicated, but within reason it’s her choice). She’s not harming anyone else. It’s very sad and yes I do believe when she’s spotted next time she will be taken / sectioned for her own safety. However previously did they really have grounds to do that? If I wanted to up and grift around on the streets I could do that.

The travelling backward and forwards make me think she is getting money / clothes, maybe not regularly but maybe every so often. Possibly a family feud. As genuine as her family seem we have no idea the background to the situation. Arguments happen.

All my opinion only.

 

[Tealgrove]

This is all very interesting however, and maybe I’ve missed this, I don’t believe LE has stated that they have seen OD on CCTV after July 7th.

So, do they have evidence of these train trips after the 7th because that’s an important piece here?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

However previously did they really have grounds to do that?

If it was the police who spoke with OD and recorded her then it would be wrong of me to judge on the specific circumstances as I wasn't there.

What I would say is that some officers will be more pro-active than others. OD looks vulnerable in the photo, only by questioning and observing her responses can a stronger opinion be formed. It may be that she appeared drunk and indeed may have been drinking.

I would hope that police would do something and not leave her be, if they assessed that she was vulnerable.

By offering her a lift 'home', checking her name, date of birth (if she had provided them willingly and correctly....there's no compulsion) they may have established that OD was missing from home and her mental health background. In this case they could have detained her under s.136 of MHA.

If she was deemed drunk and incapable she could have been arrested and taken to the cells to sober up and released later. In reality the doctor would probably have been called to check her. Whilst in custody they would need to know who she was.....this would also probably have identified OD as missing.

So indeed if it was a police bodycam that recorded OD then opportunities were missed. Unfortunately it's down to good policing and it takes a certain kind of copper, with experience, wisdom and a real sense of when something is not quite right.

The Met and other forces got rid of their experienced officers in the period around 2010 as they were too expensive. Young, new bobbies, that don't cost anywhere near as much were the ones to replace the old guard eventually.

The thing is there's no substitute for experience in policing and the ideal is that the experienced coppers teach the new ones how to police properly.....that's been lost, recruitment standards suck and look at all the chaos that the Met are continually finding themselves in. On my soap box again

 

[JuicyLucy]

This is all very interesting however, and maybe I’ve missed this, I don’t believe LE has stated that they have seen OD on CCTV after July 7th.

So, do they have evidence of these train trips after the 7th because that’s an important piece here?

No, they haven't explicitly said what they have on CCTV and what is known or suspected by other means, and neither have they given any specific dates.

The news reports are all based on a brief statement tweeted by the British Transport Police on 18 August that imo is carefully worded in order to avoid giving that precise information:

We know Owami Davies, 24, regularly uses the rail and tube network to travel from #Grays, Essex to the #Croydon area. Often via #WestHam and #WestCroydon stations. @metpoliceuk are looking at dates from 7th July 2022 onwards.

Owami may still be regularly travelling by rail in a vulnerable state, appearing dazed or confused and possibly seeking to engage with other lone female travellers. If you know where Owami is, ring the police.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1560243941252923393

 

[Whitehall 1212]

No, they haven't explicitly said what they have on CCTV and what is known or suspected by other means, and neither have they given any specific dates.

The news reports are all based on a brief statement tweeted by the British Transport Police on 18 August that imo is carefully worded in order to avoid giving that precise information:

We know Owami Davies, 24, regularly uses the rail and tube network to travel from #Grays, Essex to the #Croydon area. Often via #WestHam and #WestCroydon stations. @metpoliceuk are looking at dates from 7th July 2022 onwards.

Owami may still be regularly travelling by rail in a vulnerable state, appearing dazed or confused and possibly seeking to engage with other lone female travellers. If you know where Owami is, ring the police.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1560243941252923393

This is a general response. I tagged it to your informative post. Hope you don't mind @JuicyLucy

I think it is of little relevance for the public to know when OD was last identified on CCTV.

The reality is the CCTV may not be great and could undermine the public recognising OD.

The CCTV on London Road from 7th July at approx 12:30, I recall, is great video of OD. That's all the public need to see along with updates of the general areas OD may be. It's purely for identification of OD. We don't need a running commentary of CCTV showing exactly where she was seen, how she looked, what she was doing etc.