How solid is this close relationship, where did you hear it?
UK UK - Penny Bell, 43, Ealing, London, 6 June 1991
- Thread starter Vox_Veritas_JT
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- Rosie Dunn Mike Ridley 14 Jun 2024
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My mum was stabbed 50 times in a car park in UK’s most mysterious cold case
THE DEVASTATED daughter of murdered businesswoman Penny Bell has revealed a new prime suspect could crack the cold case open decades on. Penny was savagely stabbed to death 50 times as she sat in h…
www.thesun.co.uk
- 'THE DEVASTATED daughter of murdered businesswoman Penny Bell has revealed a new prime suspect could crack the cold case open decades on.'
Westchester76
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I am sure I read that the daughter has a pretty good idea who the culprit is. Perhaps they have now found the evidence to pursue this.'They say they have uncovered a raft of new evidence, including a fresh motive, which is among a comprehensive dossier Lauren has put together with former Detective Superintendent Brian Edwards.''
- Lengthy articleView attachment 510340
- Rosie Dunn Mike Ridley 14 Jun 2024
My mum was stabbed 50 times in a car park in UK’s most mysterious cold case
THE DEVASTATED daughter of murdered businesswoman Penny Bell has revealed a new prime suspect could crack the cold case open decades on. Penny was savagely stabbed to death 50 times as she sat in h…- 'THE DEVASTATED daughter of murdered businesswoman Penny Bell has revealed a new prime suspect could crack the cold case open decades on.'
Unfortunately the police don't seem to listen to civilians (even those who are former murder detectives).
Look at the problems Colin Sutton had getting anyone to listen to him that Levi Bellfield had killed Milly Dowler.
The forensic evidence is going to be tricky. There has been a lot of speculation that police misplaced evidence, so even if samples have been rediscovered, there may be issues about how they have been stored.
Why didn't the police match the fingerprints in Penny's car to John Richmond?
His prints were on record for crimes in London, yet as far as I know, it was Richmond who contacted the police, rather than them knocking on his door.
What sort of person waits months to announce that he was with a murder victim on the day of the murder? Some family friend he was.
His prints were on record for crimes in London, yet as far as I know, it was Richmond who contacted the police, rather than them knocking on his door.
What sort of person waits months to announce that he was with a murder victim on the day of the murder? Some family friend he was.
Yes nail scrapings and false nails for example may not have been able to be tested in 1991 but could provide evidence now if stored correctly.
Let's hope so, although I don't think John Richmond is on the national DNA database, or that he would consent to giving a voluntary DNA sample.
Interested_But_Confused
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Is it known definitively that Penny was stabbed at the Leisure Centre? I ask because the description of her car being driven slowly and erratically, with the hazard lights flashing, makes it sound like she already had been or was being attacked at that very moment.
It's nor known for definite, but the police suspect that the attack began at the leisure centre, in the stationary vehicle. It's suspected that the killer started the knife attack in the car, then got out of the vehicle and continued stabbing Penny through the driver's window.
The last definite sighting of Penny was at 9.40am at her home. Many of the potential sightings are from people who came forward months or years after the murder, so there is a fair amount of uncertainty.
There's were four or five different teams of builders renovating Penny's home. On some days there were up to twenty workmen there.
Perhaps she didn't want to leave the £8,500 at her home with so many people there.
Otherwise why is she carrying so much money with her that day? She's due at work at 10.30am. Who is the money for?
A. The person she said she was meeting at 9.50am?
B. Someone she was meeting later at work or during her workday?
C. Someone she was meeting after work before she got back home?
D. Someone she planned to meet at a later date?
With options D, she would be carrying the money with her, rather than leaving it at home with so many people wandering about.
Perhaps she didn't want to leave the £8,500 at her home with so many people there.
Otherwise why is she carrying so much money with her that day? She's due at work at 10.30am. Who is the money for?
A. The person she said she was meeting at 9.50am?
B. Someone she was meeting later at work or during her workday?
C. Someone she was meeting after work before she got back home?
D. Someone she planned to meet at a later date?
With options D, she would be carrying the money with her, rather than leaving it at home with so many people wandering about.
Interested_But_Confused
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Thank you. If the sighting of the car being driven slowly and erratically is accurate, it makes me wonder why Penny wouldn't have tried to escape from the car. If she was already in distress, but uninjured at that point, why not do something like open the door and scream? Her actions, if true, seem more like the actions of someone who was already injured and weakened.
If those sightings are NOT true, it could be really simple. She met someone, they drove to the car park, they had an argument, and she was murdered. Horrific, but tragically common despite the very public location.
If those sightings ARE true, the whole thing is perplexing.
Konstantin
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It's an interesting thought! People don't always react in the ways that you'd expect though. She might have frozen. Or events were happening so fast that she was trying to figure out what to do while being utterly terrified.
That would make a lot of sense.
The money is very odd. Her husband was surely going to notice that such a large sum had been taken out of their account very soon. Maybe Penny was being blackmailed, panicked and thought she would come up with an explanation for her husband after she dealt with the blackmail?
It's bizarre, isn't it?
I wonder if he was just so obsessed with Penny that he could not help himself and had to let people know that he had some sort of...relationship... with her? Maybe he thought the police would find his fingerprints and needed an explanation for how they got there? His behaviour appears very strange -- but it would have appeared logical to him. It is just an elaborate fantasy that gives him the satisfaction of having his (probably entirely imaginary) relationship with Penny published in a newspaper (thus making it more "real") and also gives him a cover story, albeit a ridiculous one, for why his prints are in her car? Did he regularly make up elaborate fantasies (in which he is at the centre of events?) He was clearly greedy and motivated by money, hence selling his "story" to The Sun (for ten times the amount that Penny took out of her bank and is not accounted for).
Am I right in thinking that JR was not "cleared" by police in the sense of his alibis being checked and he was shown not to have had any involvement -- but rather just not charged? It could be that the CPS did not think there was enough to convict him, so wanted to avoid a charge and an acquittal? Better to wait and see if something more substantial emerges against him?
I suspect JR was a lot more talkative with journalists, than he ever was in police interview. I don't know what alibi he produced for the period between when he said he was dropped off, and when Penny reached the leisure centre. I also wonder where JR claimed to have met Penny that morning, and how he got to that location in the first place.
Westchester76
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Why was JR ruled out as a suspect despite finding his fingerprints all over the car, and why did he then go to the press to sell his story. If he was innocent, then you can imagine he was just trying to earn himself some quick money, if guilty surely he would be keeping well away
CSIAngus
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Why did he not keep away and just keep quiet? He has inserted and reinserted himself into the story by his own actions. It's almost like he's annoyed that he's not getting the recognition or attention he deserves. MOO
Is it known for certain she had the money with her that morning? Just run an inflation checker and in todays terms that £8,500 would be £19,000 to £20,000 now. I think using todays terms is really helpful in understanding just how much cash she had on her. Imagine drawing out £20,000 today from a joint account and not mentioning it to your partner. You'd have to be seriously wealthy to consider it not worth mentioning. I'd still like to know what sort of sums she usually drew out to know how much more than usual it was.
It seems almost certain that she had the money with her that morning.
Penny was indeed seriously wealthy and was spending a fortune doing up the house. Her husband said that she controlled the finances, and had drawn out much bigger sums in the past.
Do you have any links on this please?
From Wiki:
Penny had withdrawn £8,500 from her and her husband's joint bank account on 3 June 1991, three days before her death. She had never previously withdrawn such a large sum of cash and it remains unaccounted for.
Same on Crimewatch reconstruction
If she had done the same previously I'd have thought there'd be a good idea what it was for. She drew it out three days beforehand which is why it is difficult to know where it went and when.
In Donal Macintyre's documentary her daughter says it wasn't unusual for her to draw out large sums of cash. It doesn't however say how much or what it was used for to give any real context.
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If the £8,500 was the largest amount she'd drawn to date I have four questions.
1) How often did she used to draw cash?
2) How much did she usually draw?
3) What did she usually use it for?
4) What was the date and amount of the last cash withdrawal prior to this one?
There's a lot of mentioning of the £8,500 but very little context. Paying for the building work was apparently ruled out. Her daughter thinks she had it with her that morning. If she had drawn out larger amounts previously what was that used for?
1) How often did she used to draw cash?
2) How much did she usually draw?
3) What did she usually use it for?
4) What was the date and amount of the last cash withdrawal prior to this one?
There's a lot of mentioning of the £8,500 but very little context. Paying for the building work was apparently ruled out. Her daughter thinks she had it with her that morning. If she had drawn out larger amounts previously what was that used for?