Found Deceased UK - Richard Okorogheye, 19, Oxford Student, Ladbroke Grove, West London, 24 March 2021 #2

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by lalalemon, Mar 29, 2021.

  1. lalalemon

    lalalemon Well-Known Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2021


  2. Sillybilly

    Sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    ADMIN NOTE:

    Crimestoppers is worldwide and is certainly allowed at Websleuths.

    Accordingly I am linking it again in case there was any confusion.

    Crimestoppers London Facebook page

    If there is any question as to what is or is not allowed, please ask a Mod or Admin rather than having other members possibly misinterpreting Websleuths social media rules.
     
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  3. Sillybilly

    Sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Hey everyone,

    Please read the Terms of Service (aka The Rules) that everyone agreed to upon registering with Websleuths. Those rules are what sets Websleuths apart from all the other rag-mag, gossipy, rumor laden sites on the internet and what most members come to appreciate.

    Discussing known victim behaviour, good or bad, is allowed but negative speculation about a victim (i.e. affairs or hook-ups, drugs, etc) is not victim friendly and not in keeping with Websleuths Terms of Service. Also, discussing sexual orientation is not allowed unless it is known to be germane to the case.

    We also need to remind members that discussing removed posts and challenging or discussing moderation on the thread is an automatic time out.
     
  4. Sillybilly

    Sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    ADMIN NOTE:

    New members need to read The Rules (linked in my signature). Everyone agreed to them upon registering with Websleuths and everyone is expected to post accordingly.

    Racial discussion, bickering or inciting conflict are among the things that are not allowed at Websleuths. Members who do so risk a temporary or permanent loss of posting privileges.
     
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  5. CocoChanel

    CocoChanel Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Gentle reminder:

    While many members may have experienced similar circumstances that may have played into this missing person case, we need to be mindful about keeping the discussion on the missing person. When a post becomes more about you than about the missing person, that is the key point that it is determined to be off topic. What can happen is that other members, in their empathy, comment on the personal experience, and that can veer the thread off topic. If you would like to give support to other members, please do so in PMs OR perhaps discuss in the basement threads, where there is an active thread about depression.

    THANK YOU for being sensitive to the missing persons and victims these threads are about.
     
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  6. Sillybilly

    Sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    ADMIN NOTE:

    Websleuths does not speculate negatively on a victim when there is no information from MSM or LE in that regard.

    As per TOS / The Rules, Websleuths is Victim Friendly.

    VICTIM FRIENDLY

    Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing known victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is known to be relevant to the case.


    So please stop the negative speculation about sex, drugs, hook-ups, dogging, etc. It is not victim friendly, it is not based on any known fact, it is unnecessary, and only applicable if MSM or LE indicate it is germane to the investigation of this case.
     
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  7. ApparentlyInDenial

    ApparentlyInDenial Well-Known Member

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    Note that the College of Policing guideline on finding the body of a missing person is that it's suspicious until proven otherwise.
     
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  8. Puzzles

    Puzzles Well-Known Member

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    It appears to be a very difficult task to determine if a body found in water was an accidental or intentional drowning, or if the decedent was dead before immersion. The article cited below is lengthy, detailed, and possibly disturbing for some of us to read.

    Extracts from National Center for Biotechnology Information BBM

    "...Water-related deaths often are prematurely, and at times subconsciously, labeled as accidental drownings. While this is often the case, the presumption that a body recovered from within or near a body of water is an accidental drowning can hinder timely recognition of indicators of foul play and other important clues present in or around the death scene (3, 4). This, in turn, may ultimately lead to false conclusions regarding cause and manner of death and adverse adjudication. Furthermore, failure to recognize certain scene attributes and bodily findings suggestive of homicide can hamper further investigation including interviews with witnesses and persons of interest or apprehension of suspects. The investigation of deaths associated with natural bodies of water can be particularly challenging due to the characteristics inherent in an environment that are constantly changing such as in lakes, rivers, and oceans. It is also important to recognize that not all water-related deaths can be presumed to be drownings and other factors such as water and weather temperature extremes, drug intoxication, or natural disease may be sufficient enough to be the cause of death and otherwise preclude drowning.
    The investigation of the submerged body often requires the coordinated efforts and expertise of multiple agencies, especially when dealing with natural bodies of water. To varying degrees, those commonly involved include water-based emergency technical responders, law enforcement, medical first responders, medicolegal death investigators, forensic scientists, and forensic pathologists.
    Suicidal and homicidal drownings represent a smaller but significant segment of drowning deaths. Suicidal drownings are uncommon, and the percentages of all suicides vary between less than 1% to nearly 9% of all manners of drowning, depending upon the geographic location and access to water, with lakes, oceans, and rivers the more common locales (1216). Older Caucasian men tend to be the typical decedent in suicidal drowning deaths; however, a significant proportion of women utilize this less violent method of death (

    The many alterations conferred by postmortem decomposition add another layer of difficulty in regard to the determination of the cause of death, time of death, and location of death in any death and especially in bodies recovered from water..."

    Investigation of Drowning Deaths: A Practical Review
     
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  9. Beans

    Beans Well-Known Member

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    Yes. It appears there’s no doubt it’s him. They’ll want to confirm identity and update on next steps (if there are to be any) simultaneously. Helps to manage media and speculation that way, I guess. And perhaps any potential for public panic in and around Epping Forest.
     
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  10. JnxT

    JnxT Active Member

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    Drove past the scene about an hour ago on my way home and there is still a massive police presence. Police on the side of Epping New Road next to the Wake Valley Pond, vast area still cordoned off, paparazzi being moved off by officers and what looked like a high profile police officer arriving. I suspect this may have been around the time the family were visiting. Really heartbreaking images.
     
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  11. ApparentlyInDenial

    ApparentlyInDenial Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for this. Suicidal drownings constitute only <1% to 9% of all drownings. Wow.
     
  12. ApparentlyInDenial

    ApparentlyInDenial Well-Known Member

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    Thank you - this is useful to know.
     
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  13. MillipPharlowe

    MillipPharlowe New Member

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    A very good point. There was a documentary on Channel 4 very recently about a missing person who turned up on Facebook and actually called his sister before going off the radar again. Police held a meeting with local press and insisted simultaneously that they had compelling evidence the person was still alive, and that they were still confident that it should remain a murder investigation.
     
  14. sleuthheywood7

    sleuthheywood7 Well-Known Member

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    Just a disclaimer on this - puddles mentioned that the full article may be quite disturbing for some - it contains some pretty graphic images. I just clicked on it myself and wasn't expecting what I saw, and wanted to just reiterate in case anyone clicks on it and isn't prepared etc.
     
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  15. Puzzles

    Puzzles Well-Known Member

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    I'm grateful you added a strong warning about the graphics included in the article I posted,@sleuthheywood7. Thank you.
    I realize now my mild suggestion that reading it may "possibly be disturbing" was inadequate.
     
  16. tedtink

    tedtink Well-Known Member

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    I think the 'depression'assumption may have grown legs!

    RO's Mum said he was struggling with lock down, that's all, she's never mentioned depression.
    She is a nurse and I'm sure she would have had training in order to recognise symptoms of anxiety, which ultimately can lead to depression.
    So he had neglected his personal hygiene a little, not unusual considering some kids are slobbing around in PJ's, playing PS with no focus during lockdown.
    It seems they were close and she obviously supports him regarding his physical health, so IMO would support him regarding his emotional health too.

    He told her he was going to visit a friend - it was Mum who presumed he was going to see someone in the same block, maybe he did go and see a 'friend' in Loughton and wasn't telling fibs. She made the point, a few times, that she "trusted" him.

    There was no questioning or challenging by his Mum regarding him going to see a friend, considering he was shielding , I doubt it was the first time, so he was 'getting out' a little.

    I don't understand the focus on lack of coat - many kids don't wear them. my son didn't wear a coat until he was 22! It's too uncool as said above.
    He might not have owned a coat and his Mum hasn't mentioned one at all.

    It's possible that he was picked up in a car. just as he got into Loughton and was driven to the car park.

    JMO
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  17. Snookysnooky

    Snookysnooky Member

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    They are still asking for the help of the public.
    They are still in the area and there is a large presence.
    They obviously know something that isn't being shared and have reason for this.

    If it was suspected suicide then this would be unlikely to happen. Moo.
     
  18. Marg from Oz

    Marg from Oz Well-Known Member

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    I think the lost couple of hours holds the key.Mooo
     
  19. Cuko

    Cuko Well-Known Member

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    I think the lack of coat assumed greater significance because of Richard’s Sickle Cell Disease. My understanding is that cold can cause significant pain and potentially a Sickle Cell crisis. JMO, I’m not an expert.
     
  20. candlemaker808

    candlemaker808 Active Member

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    I am still expecting this to be a suicide scenario, but I admit there are elements - some of the circumstances of the evening in question; the continued heavy police presence in the area; the current lack of formal identification - that give me pause.
     

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