UK - Sara Sharif, 10, found murdered in house, Surrey, Aug 2023 *POIs ARREST* #4

[scapa]

Brief take by The Guardian\ on today's testimony -- nothing new really:

Sara Sharif’s father admits being ‘selfish’ and a ‘very bad father’

Urfan Sharif, who has admitted ‘full responsibility’ for Sara’s death, also admits credibility problem, saying ‘I didn’t tell the truth’

www.theguardian.com

 

[su5ie]

he could not be controlling her if he was not even there. Not just that I was a victim of domestic violence. I would not have sat there sending photos of the childrens injuries to my family. I would have gone straight to the cops. Incidentally we know neighbours have said SHE abused them when he was at work- where he would be for hours. Have they said he sh

im so glad you were able to leave a DV relationship behind you . And I sincerely hope you are getting the respect and love you deserve I admire your courage

Just like mental health were different people have different ranges of coping mechanisms and degrees of severity .Victims of DV have a range of reactions and abusers have lots of different degrees of how much fear and control they exert and which areas of the person's being they target so one abuser may target emotional wellbeing and be OK with financial independence, one may rape his partner every night but not control other areas of their victims lives and so on and so forth .

Many victims will follow rules even if the abuser is out of sight for fear they may be caught doing something the abuser does not approve of .
A broad statement such as I would do this in a situation is not always valid for others I'm not critiquing your statement and I was a victim too of extreme DV .

I suppose if I'm honest I was projecting my expierence on to beinash . Urfan is a horrible horrible man and I would not put anything past his capability.

I need to stress this clearly I do not believe bienash is innocent by a long stretch I just believe she was a victim of DV too . This does not excuse her behaviour or her lack of action in getting help for Sara or any of the other children whom also suffered from some degree of abuse in the household

 

[Smithpanes]

I think the only abuse that we should be focused on is the abuse that Sara endured. B had choices. Sarah didn’t! Just my own opinion.

 

[UK Girl]

im so glad you were able to leave a DV relationship behind you . And I sincerely hope you are getting the respect and love you deserve I admire your courage

Just like mental health were different people have different ranges of coping mechanisms and degrees of severity .Victims of DV have a range of reactions and abusers have lots of different degrees of how much fear and control they exert and which areas of the person's being they target so one abuser may target emotional wellbeing and be OK with financial independence, one may rape his partner every night but not control other areas of their victims lives and so on and so forth .

Many victims will follow rules even if the abuser is out of sight for fear they may be caught doing something the abuser does not approve of .
A broad statement such as I would do this in a situation is not always valid for others I'm not critiquing your statement and I was a victim too of extreme DV .

I suppose if I'm honest I was projecting my expierence on to beinash . Urfan is a horrible horrible man and I would not put anything past his capability.

I need to stress this clearly I do not believe bienash is innocent by a long stretch I just believe she was a victim of DV too . This does not excuse her behaviour or her lack of action in getting help for Sara or any of the other children whom also suffered from some degree of abuse in the household

tbh I just think she was as bad as him. He was not there for long hours. He did not do the bites and apparently some of the other injuries. It was her the neighbours heard abusing Sara. Yes I agree he is horrible but honestly I see no defence for her even if she was a victim of a DV. For the record mine was extreme too but from talking to other victims most if not all would not allow what happened to Sara to happen to their kids.

 

[Sooty]

IMO

US is a vicious, sadistic, manipulative, monster of a human being. How any can believe anything that he says after this week beggars belief. He is certainly capable of all the abuse and has obviously shown no mercy, no love, no concern at any time to Sara. We are yet to see BB or M challenged in the dock to form opinion on whether they are capable of the same level of sadism, but we do know that US is.
I also think he is very capable of influencing other people’s opinion of him and ensuring that they form the impression that he desires. He uses confusion, and misrepresentation regularly and has managed to conceal his true nature from neighbours and his own family.

 

[Charlot123]

Snipped from Smithpanes post 219 - above


Jurors also heard that Sharif had been raised in Pakistan and that his parents had not instilled a disciplinarian regime towards their children.
He admitted that his ideas of discipline, which he used against Sara, had “come from him”.

“Did you have an idea about how children should be punished? Is that the truth about all of this?”, Mr Ivers KC asked.

“There’s certain things I can’t explain, I have no words,” Sharif said.




BIB One and US and BBs children ( plus Olga's son ) are - currently - being brought up with the same attitude towards discipline


BIB Two - for once, I agree with him

He might have been disciplined, but he is dependent on his family's support now in too many ways. JMO.

 

[Charlot123]

I suggested this up thread and it's my opinion he coerced bienish into doing it so she was implicated in the abuse

Bienash herself was as implicated as he Urfan was. He is just a heavy, stupid angry boor, but they are two of a kind. The school testified to her aggression. I think the bites were hers, and that she can't be even close to any child.

 

[Skigh]

He might have been disciplined, but he is dependent on his family's support now in too many ways. JMO.

I am not sure how any family support can help him now. They are in Pakistan and he is looking likely to spend many years if not the rest of his life in an English prison.
The only thing which benefits him saying he was not physically disciplined by his parents, is his father keeping guardianship of the other children.

 

[Noseyjosie]

It crossed my mind that perhaps, due to the frequency of U's beatings/anger etc, towards Sara (I mean, it can't have been pleasant, living in that house and knowing that another "episode" was always just around the corner) possibly Beinash grew frustrated with Sara and then began to abuse her too to try and prevent some of U's rages.
Almost as if she wanted Sara to just stop doing things to "wind her father up" (I know Sara wasn't doing anything, in any way, to cause this abuse, I'm just saying how abusers think and the anxiety they instill. I too have been a victim of DV and control, and you find yourself tiptoeing around, trying desperately to not do or say anything which might "set them off". It seldom works, but you spend 24/7 trying.)

Personally, I think Beinash was totally overwhelmed.......six kids, abusive husband, overcrowded living conditions, having to conceal the injuries to Sara and the fact that her brother-in-law was living with them, allegedly estranged from her own family, etc etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way defending her, but I wonder if she did - at one point, at least - love Sara, and if the photo of a made up, happy looking, Sara was done out of affection, rather than anything sinister. Possibly to try and compensate for the abuse Sara suffered at the hands of her father.
She said in a message to her sister (in a previous post upthread) that Sara reminded her of herself when younger.....that suggests to me that she cared for Sara on some level - early on, at least.

 

[Smithpanes]

‘Inhuman’ violence against Sara Sharif ‘normalised’ by defendants, jurors told

Taxi driver Urfan Sharif, 42, his wife Beinash Batool, 30, and brother Faisal Malik, 29, are accused of being party to years of abuse.

www.standard.co.uk

 

[su5ie]

tbh I just think she was as bad as him. He was not there for long hours. He did not do the bites and apparently some of the other injuries. It was her the neighbours heard abusing Sara. Yes I agree he is horrible but honestly I see no defence for her even if she was a victim of a DV. For the record mine was extreme too but from talking to other victims most if not all would not allow what happened to Sara to happen to their kids.

I agree most would protect any children from first hand abuse

 

[Skigh]

It crossed my mind that perhaps, due to the frequency of U's beatings/anger etc, towards Sara (I mean, it can't have been pleasant, living in that house and knowing that another "episode" was always just around the corner) possibly Beinash grew frustrated with Sara and then began to abuse her too to try and prevent some of U's rages.
Almost as if she wanted Sara to just stop doing things to "wind her father up" (I know Sara wasn't doing anything, in any way, to cause this abuse, I'm just saying how abusers think and the anxiety they instill. I too have been a victim of DV and control, and you find yourself tiptoeing around, trying desperately to not do or say anything which might "set them off". It seldom works, but you spend 24/7 trying.)

Personally, I think Beinash was totally overwhelmed.......six kids, abusive husband, overcrowded living conditions, having to conceal the injuries to Sara and the fact that her brother-in-law was living with them, allegedly estranged from her own family, etc etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way defending her, but I wonder if she did - at one point, at least - love Sara, and if the photo of a made up, happy looking, Sara was done out of affection, rather than anything sinister. Possibly to try and compensate for the abuse Sara suffered at the hands of her father.
She said in a message to her sister (in a previous post upthread) that Sara reminded her of herself when younger.....that suggests to me that she cared for Sara on some level - early on, at least.

There is no way Beinash cared for Sara. If she had even one iota of feeling for her she would have sort help the first time she was physically hurt.

 

[su5ie]

I am not sure how any family support can help him now. They are in Pakistan and he is looking likely to spend many years of not the rest of his life in an English prison.
The only thing which benefits him saying he was not physically disciplined by his parents, is his father keeping guardianship of the other children.

Yes I thought his method behind stating he had an idealistic childhood is his way of manipulating the courts into allowing the rest of the children to stay with HIS family in Pakistan. Its his way of maintaining control over the children

 

[seasideForest]

The only thing which benefits him saying he was not physically disciplined by his parents, is his father keeping guardianship of the other children.

RSBMFF
Should anybody believe him though? He lies so much.

I know there are a lot of differing opinions on this thread on whether the children should remain in Pakistan. I don't know the answer of what would be best for the children. I really don't. But I'm not sure remaining with their paternal grandfather is the best. MOO

 

[Skigh]

Yes I thought his method behind stating he had an idealistic childhood is his way of manipulating the courts into allowing the rest of the children to stay with HIS family in Pakistan. Its his way of maintaining control over the children

I do not think he will have any control over his children from prison.

 

[porkypies]

....Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way defending her, but I wonder if she did - at one point, at least - love Sara, and if the photo of a made up, happy looking, Sara was done out of affection, rather than anything sinister. Possibly to try and compensate for the abuse Sara suffered at the hands of her father.
She said in a message to her sister (in a previous post upthread) that Sara reminded her of herself when younger.....that suggests to me that she cared for Sara on some level - early on, at least.

I think that Sarah was trained to smile and to lie about her injuries, and 'home schooled' under threat (re-herself or her siblings) how to behave in the presence of other people.

 

[iamshadow21]

It crossed my mind that perhaps, due to the frequency of U's beatings/anger etc, towards Sara (I mean, it can't have been pleasant, living in that house and knowing that another "episode" was always just around the corner) possibly Beinash grew frustrated with Sara and then began to abuse her too to try and prevent some of U's rages.
Almost as if she wanted Sara to just stop doing things to "wind her father up" (I know Sara wasn't doing anything, in any way, to cause this abuse, I'm just saying how abusers think and the anxiety they instill. I too have been a victim of DV and control, and you find yourself tiptoeing around, trying desperately to not do or say anything which might "set them off". It seldom works, but you spend 24/7 trying.)

Personally, I think Beinash was totally overwhelmed.......six kids, abusive husband, overcrowded living conditions, having to conceal the injuries to Sara and the fact that her brother-in-law was living with them, allegedly estranged from her own family, etc etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way defending her, but I wonder if she did - at one point, at least - love Sara, and if the photo of a made up, happy looking, Sara was done out of affection, rather than anything sinister. Possibly to try and compensate for the abuse Sara suffered at the hands of her father.
She said in a message to her sister (in a previous post upthread) that Sara reminded her of herself when younger.....that suggests to me that she cared for Sara on some level - early on, at least.

Some people hate or punish people who remind them of themselves, especially if they feel like the younger person should suffer like they did. It's a way to make themselves feel powerful, and probably is a negative kind of transference. The child becomes a poppet (what is often incorrectly called a Voodoo doll by westerners). They hate to see the child's happiness, potential, and youth (things the abuser feels they have lost themselves) and punish them to death for it.

MOO

 

[su5ie]

It crossed my mind that perhaps, due to the frequency of U's beatings/anger etc, towards Sara (I mean, it can't have been pleasant, living in that house and knowing that another "episode" was always just around the corner) possibly Beinash grew frustrated with Sara and then began to abuse her too to try and prevent some of U's rages.
Almost as if she wanted Sara to just stop doing things to "wind her father up" (I know Sara wasn't doing anything, in any way, to cause this abuse, I'm just saying how abusers think and the anxiety they instill. I too have been a victim of DV and control, and you find yourself tiptoeing around, trying desperately to not do or say anything which might "set them off". It seldom works, but you spend 24/7 trying.)

Personally, I think Beinash was totally overwhelmed.......six kids, abusive husband, overcrowded living conditions, having to conceal the injuries to Sara and the fact that her brother-in-law was living with them, allegedly estranged from her own family, etc etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way defending her, but I wonder if she did - at one point, at least - love Sara, and if the photo of a made up, happy looking, Sara was done out of affection, rather than anything sinister. Possibly to try and compensate for the abuse Sara suffered at the hands of her father.
She said in a message to her sister (in a previous post upthread) that Sara reminded her of herself when younger.....that suggests to me that she cared for Sara on some level - early on, at least.

You have expressed what I was trying to get across much better than I could explain in your first paragraph
Hypothesising bienash's precieved situation and suggesting she was a victim of DV is not condoning any of her behaviour toward Sara . It is not an acceptable form of defence in any offence as I'm said up thread I actually said I'm sick of the ' I had a bad upbringing " card being used as a get out of jail card in many a court room .
Just as suggesting urfan and malik may have had a harsh disciplinarian childhood with similar beatings given to them is not condoning what they did either .

 

[seasideForest]

but I wonder if she <Beinash> did - at one point, at least - love Sara, and if the photo of a made up, happy looking, Sara was done out of affection, rather than anything sinister. Possibly to try and compensate for the abuse Sara suffered at the hands of her father.
She said in a message to her sister (in a previous post upthread) that Sara reminded her of herself when younger.....that suggests to me that she cared for Sara - early on, at least.

BBM
That doesn't fit the time frame for me. B. may have cared for Sara early on, but the photo can't have been done early on. That's not an 8yo in the photo! I'd guess a 10yo in fact.

MOO

 

[Moll]

‘Inhuman’ violence against Sara Sharif ‘normalised’ by defendants, jurors told

Taxi driver Urfan Sharif, 42, his wife Beinash Batool, 30, and brother Faisal Malik, 29, are accused of being party to years of abuse.

www.standard.co.uk

Mr Emlyn Jones has really gone for US and his sickening sadism and lies, but he has not let any of them off, certainly not BB - he's pursuing exactly the point outlined at the very start of the trial:
'Outlining the Crown’s case, Mr Emlyn Jones KC said: “The prosecution case is that it is inconceivable that one of the adults alone, or two of them, could have carried out what amounts to a campaign of abuse without the complicity, participation, assistance and encouragement of the others.
“None of them ever reported Sara’s abuse to any outside agency, who could have intervened; Sara’s medical records tell us that none of the injuries she received was ever reported, or shown to a doctor, or to staff at her school; no outside help was called.
“None of the defendants did anything to prevent what was happening to Sara, as they surely would have done if they had not been complicit in what was happening.
“The prosecution case is that they are all responsible for her death, and they are all guilty of her murder.”'

(Sorry I haven't yet found the link, the one to the Standard on the original post quoting it didn't contain this passage, but there are many similar reports eg Father of 10-year-old Sara Sharif told police he had killed her, court hears).

This latest report is the first time I have seen the assertion that BB regularly phoned US to come home knowing it would trigger a harsh punishment for Sara.