GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Awaiting Sentencing*, #15

Discussion in 'Trials' started by tesni, Mar 5, 2021.

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  1. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    For me the difference is that WC was charged with murder, so the media looked into his background, whereas the tabloids used supposedly salacious information about Jefferies to try to imply he was guilty.

    The Tabs often try to use lifestyle/personality to try to imply people are sex offenders - we are not long past the era when being gay meant you might be a pedo according to the tabs.

    However I think this guy being called "rapist" and women being uncomfortable around him is directly relevant to what he ended up doing.

    When I started my first professional job, the women in my year group were warned who not to get in a lift with. I think this kind of information is worth digging up - these things don't come from nowhere.
     


  2. cestmoi

    cestmoi Active Member

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    Once upon a time, not in the UK, I did some volunteering with a charity that offered support to sex workers. Many of the ones I knew were working on the streets or within dodgy, run-down hotel buildings. There was a list, routinely updated and distributed around the sex workers, of "bad dates" - guys they should not get into a car with. I saw the bad date list often - physical descriptions, car number plates. WC has apparently admitted to using sex workers and if his sexual preferences are violent, it would be helpful to know if something like the "bad date list" exists. I am trying to think of how any relevant information from sex workers could be found out, in relation to this case.
     
  3. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    This is my suspicion as well.

    In other cases, a place where the perp acted out his violent fantasies was with vulnerable sex workers.

    I would bet money on his wife a victim of abuse as well, but I understand why women often don't talk.
     
  4. cestmoi

    cestmoi Active Member

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    I can respect your thoughts on that, although mine differ - I suspect that his relationship with his wife was carefully kept separate from any sexual violence (that he used other outlets for this, probably very frequently and in a very extreme way IMO). There may have been other aspects that his wife, maybe only in hindsight, would question now - for example, the frequency and duration of times he was not at home (possibly attributed to being "at work" in a confidential capacity that he wouldn't give many details about?). I may be wrong. I think maintaining separate identities in this regard may have been important to him.

    Edited to add: His wife would have been somewhat vulnerable, however, especially when she first came over to the UK, being isolated from family, language, culture and likely reliant on him for a period of time. I think he would have loved that level of control. Control, but not necessarily abuse (for her).
     
  5. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    Depends on what we mean by abuse - i don't necessarily mean physical.

    I doubt this guy was capable of having genuine relationships with anyone. And as you point out, the attraction of a foreign bride is that dependance. Ultimately she and the kids have ended up as victims, whatever the past.
     
  6. cestmoi

    cestmoi Active Member

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    Very good point. His relationships were likely dysfunctional on some level. At the very least, his wife and children are victims of his lies and are suffering the consequences of those. They may be victims of much more than that, but certainly they are victims.
     
  7. Moll

    Moll Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you're right, having been a freelance journalist myself and more recently having supplied information to both the Mirror and the Mail on condition of anonymity. In both cases it was because identifying me would have identified a third party plus in one case there was a danger of retribution from a criminal. In both cases I must say that the story was accurately reported. As you say, there's a separate issue of nonsense reported even from named sources.
     
  8. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure that local detectives will have connections they can use to find that kind of thing out. In fact, I imagine that's already happened.

    Personally, I think that something of this sort explains the hire car, and also the lack of care in hiding his identity in the course of hiring the car. I know that some people cite the hire car as evidence of premeditation in Sarah's abduction, but to my mind he did not expect the Met to end up crawling all over his business so much as wanted not to be recognisable from previous encounters.

    I wouldn't be surprised to find he's subjected other women to sexual attacks in the past, but I'm expecting them to be sex workers or particularly vulnerable and powerless women, e.g. homeless. I think that stopping on the South Circular when he saw Sarah walking home was an impulse decision and, from his perspective, an error of judgement. As well as the ease with which all the car data came out, that would also explain stupid errors like keeping his phone on. I would think he'd pulled the warrant card out before though. The act of getting Sarah into the car seems to have been practised, even if what happened afterwards looks like a panicky mess.

    We'll probably never know for sure though. Even if he starts talking, it will be hard to feel we can rely on what comes out.

    JMO
     
  9. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    The office perv used to be a vile but common hazard of working life and, hypocritically, papers like the Mail were the first and loudest in bemoaning the removal of the right to make women's life unpleasant. The #me too movement really upset the Mail.

    If you look at British comedy from the 60s and 70s sexual harassment was a staple. My kids recently caught an old carry on films and pointed out people were chuckling at attempted rape and pedophilia. So in the not too distant past it was culturally accepted tho always unpleasant and wrong

    I agree they are things in his past that are relevant but I understand, culturally, why nobody did anything. I do wonder how much derision the colleague that reported him for smacking her bottom got and how many other colleagues were put off reporting
     
  10. Officer Dibble

    Officer Dibble Well-Known Member

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    I was replying to @johnlair and your question should be to them.
     
  11. Italia

    Italia Active Member

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    It is from Times of London
    But yes, I would not think the journo would risk her rep with dodgy sources tbh
     
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  12. Italia

    Italia Active Member

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    @johnlair
     
  13. Moll

    Moll Well-Known Member

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    Agreed - a reputable journalist would normally assure themselves that the source was genuine even if s/he agreed not to name them. That doesn't mean the source is right or has the only correct angle on the subject of course.
     
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  14. Tortoise

    Tortoise Well-Known Member

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    Most front car seats recline back into a lying position. Well all the cars I've owned anyway, and none have been two door.

    It helps to get a Christmas tree inside, or to take long items through from the rear to the front by flattening all the seats, except the driver's seat of course..
     
  15. Cherwell

    Cherwell Ice Cream

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    Pedophilia means sexual abuse of prepubescent children, and it has never been "culturally accepted" in the UK! :eek: And certainly never depicted in a Carry On film.
    .
     
  16. Newthoughts

    Newthoughts Well-Known Member

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    I think she was referring to the scene in carry on camping where an elderly and wrinkled Sid James and his equally elderly chum were trying to get off with what were supposed to be school girls. I suspect she didn't understand the distinction between statutory rape and pedophilia. Her exact comment was are they supposed to be at school? - yes. Is he supposed to be a paedophile then? Obviously she didn't know the correct legal jargon.

    It was not uncommon in the past for certain papers to carry a countdown to 16th birthdays. Culturally that seemed to be ok. When in fact it wasn't
     
  17. Marantz4250b

    Marantz4250b Well-Known Member

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    Since the law changed to raise the age to 18 for doing "porn" old copies of the Sun are actually child porn these days!

    On a related note; The Godfather, technically speaking, is illegal. After Michael Corleone shoots the Police chief in the restaurant he flees to Sicily for a time. While there he meets a girl and gets married. The wedding night scene involves his wife doing a topless scene. The actress who played the part was 17 at the time.
     
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  18. Nina2021

    Nina2021 Member

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    If WC had shown who he really was/is there would have been no marriage or kids.
    Maintaining a facade is crucial indeed when there's so much to lose.
    He failed, and lost it all.
     
  19. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    Oh absolutely - look at the Benny Hill show - sex pest stuff was comedy in those days
     
  20. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy&Gabby

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    Having lived in the States for a while (from UK), it's much easier not to take the statement such as "taken by force" so literal when reading the cited legal definition reported in MSM when in fact typically, kidnapping universally implies a victim such as SE did not willingly go to Hoads Wood with her killer.

    And I'm all for updating the laws from common law verbiage to the 21st century!

    Simplification of the Criminal Law: Kidnapping and Related Offences | Law Commission
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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